# Libertarians Freak Out **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 28, 2009, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670 "2009-04-28T21:43:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670/1 "2009-04-28T21:43:46Z")
Apparently, [Milton Friedman](http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2009/04/28/secession/) is now encouraging all good libertarians to go live on oil rig platforms so that they can be free of the democracy (yes, it’s democracy that’s the problem) that oppresses them. They don’t want to go too far however; they still want to take advantage of the benefits of democratic oppression, like physical security. Meanwhile, Paypal’s Peter Thiel concludes it was a mistake to let girls vote, because they don’t understand that no taxes is better than _everything_. I’ve been hearing a lot about a resurgence of libertarianism in the face of the collapse of the Republican party. Is it getting to their heads? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670/2 "2009-04-28T21:49:32Z")
Sorry, that’s not Milton Friedman. It’s his grandson, Patri. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670/3 "2009-04-28T21:49:59Z")
I believe that would be > [@](#): > > Patri Friedman, the grandson of the free-market fundamentalist economist Milton Friedman who is advocating that. Facts are a useful thing. ETA Doh! curse you **acsenray**! ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670/4 "2009-04-28T21:50:05Z")
Link to Thiel quote? ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670/5 "2009-04-28T21:57:34Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > Link to Thiel quote? [http://gawker.com/5231390/facebook-backer-wishes-women-couldnt-vote](http://gawker.com/5231390/facebook-backer-wishes-women-couldnt-vote) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670/6 "2009-04-28T22:12:37Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > I’ve been hearing a lot about a resurgence of libertarianism in the face of the collapse of the Republican party. Is it getting to their heads? Well, Rand’s Objectivism is on the upswing and that is often closely tied to Libertarian ideals. > [@](#): > > Rand book sales are “going through the roof,” said Yaron Brook, the president of the Ayn Rand Institute. According to Brook, “Atlas Shrugged,” her most famous novel, has sold more copies in the first four months of 2009 than it did for all of 2008 – and in 2008, it sold 200,000 copies. It’s been in [Amazon.com](http://Amazon.com)’s top 50 for more than a month. > > Not bad for a 1,100-page doorstop of a book that came out in 1957, by an author who died in 1982. > > SOURCE: ['Atlas Shrugged' author sees resurgence - CNN.com](http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/books/04/27/ayn.rand.atlas.shrugged/index.html?iref=newssearch) Truly scary IMO. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670/7 "2009-04-28T22:15:59Z")
How can you be a “free market fundamentalist”? Live according to a strict, literal interpretation of _The Wealth of Nations_? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670/8 "2009-04-28T22:21:41Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Well, Rand’s Objectivism is on the upswing and that is often closely tied to Libertarian ideals. A Libertarian once told me Rand **hated** the Libertarian Party, but I’m not clear on why. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670/9 "2009-04-28T22:30:16Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > How can you be a “free market fundamentalist”? Live according to a strict, literal interpretation of _The Wealth of Nations_? You do it by being the sort of person who thinks that the free market is the solution to everything, should never be interfered with under any circumstances, and takes these principles on faith. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670/10 "2009-04-28T22:31:30Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > How can you be a “free market fundamentalist”? Live according to a strict, literal interpretation of _The Wealth of Nations_? Probably not. I’ve never read it, but I’ve read excerpts in which Adam Smith seems to be favorable to a welfare state. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670/11 "2009-04-28T22:32:33Z")
Nevertheless, Der, Adam Smith was a great philsopher and would never have argued that the free market was the solution to everything. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670/12 "2009-04-28T23:03:00Z")
> [@Angry Lurker](#): > > Nevertheless, Der, Adam Smith was a great philsopher and would never have argued that the free market was the solution to everything. It’s not necessarily the person who starts a philosophy/idea/movement/religion/whatever which makes someone a “fundamentalist”, but the nature of the follower in question. It IS in part their fault if the philosophy in question is an absolutist, irrational one ( which disqualifies Adam Smith personally, as far I know ). The point is, Adam Smith is long past the point where he can have any personal influence in the attitudes of some guy whose beliefs are at best distantly descended from Smith’s. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670/13 "2009-04-28T23:11:37Z")
Mr. Thiel is, one notes, gay. This may have some relation to his opinion of women. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670/14 "2009-04-28T23:23:26Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Mr. Thiel is, one notes, gay. This may have some relation to his opinion of women. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670/15 "2009-04-28T23:29:13Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Mr. Thiel is, one notes, gay. This may have some relation to his opinion of women. I tend to doubt it. Most gay men don’t exhibit the creepy dead gaze of a psycho killer. I think that guy’s got something entirely different going on, and the rest of us will probably be a lot happier if we never find out what it is. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670/16 "2009-04-28T23:41:21Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > You do it by being the sort of person who thinks that the free market is the solution to everything, should never be interfered with under any circumstances, and takes these principles on faith. No, you do it by being the sort of person who thinks the free market should never be interfered with, as a matter of moral principle, **regardless of whether it is the solution to anything or not.** ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670/17 "2009-04-29T00:30:26Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > A Libertarian once told me Rand **hated** the Libertarian Party, but I’m not clear on why. Have you met any of them? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670/18 "2009-04-29T00:38:08Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Have you met any of them? Many Libertarians; not sure if any of them were Randians. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670/19 "2009-04-29T00:49:48Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No, you do it by being the sort of person who thinks the free market should never be interfered with, as a matter of moral principle, **regardless of whether it is the solution to anything or not.** No, I agree with Der Trihs. The free market _is_ the solution, even if every single individual hates the result. It’s akin to an unpolular commandment from god. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670/20 "2009-04-29T00:52:22Z")
> [@Terrifel](#): > > I tend to doubt it. Most gay men don’t exhibit the creepy dead gaze of a psycho killer. They don’t?! :eek: :smack: I **knew** something was wrong with my gaydar! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670.md?page=2)