# Libertarians Freak Out **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 28, 2009, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670 "2009-04-28T21:43:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670/41 "2009-04-29T14:15:10Z")
> [@](#): > > Moreover, most of them are my enemies: they spend their time denouncing me, while plagiarizing my ideas. I think that the real answer is to be found between the lines of this statement: they recognized her as a self-important cult leader, and that pissed her off. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670/42 "2009-04-29T14:43:01Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > The Libertarian orders a Cuba Libre, the Randian orders Absolut, and the LaRouchian orders the death of the other two. > > Where’s my money? That’s really good! Except I always heard that LaRouchians were more into putting snakes into people sock drawers and killing their pets. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670/43 "2009-04-29T14:55:11Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > A Libertarian once told me Rand **hated** the Libertarian Party, but I’m not clear on why. She considered them a bunch of hippies. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670/44 "2009-04-29T15:00:44Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > And WTF is that supposed to mean? Do people hate all people they’re not attracted to? There is a small but not insignificant subset of the gay male community who are actively and noisily misogynistic (in the same way that some lesbians are active man-haters). The presumption here is that Mr Theil is a member of this subset. It should be added that (in my limited experience) this subset is not representative of, nor generally liked by, the other members of the gay community, who wish they would STFU. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670/45 "2009-04-29T15:08:51Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > They don’t?! :eek: > > :smack: I **knew** something was wrong with my gaydar! It’s the science fiction fans who have the creepy dead gaze of a psycho killer. Have you been going to science fiction conventions instead of gay bars by mistake? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670/46 "2009-04-29T16:00:55Z")
> [@](#): > > She considered them to be hippies. Hippies? This [David Nolan](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Zm6JXvXXze4/R3AA3FPP9AI/AAAAAAAAAaQ/cXZhW9S6ujc/s200/david-nolan-2.jpg), founder of the Libertarian Pary and this is [John Hospers](http://www.theadvocates.org/celebrities/images/john-hospers.jpg), the first Libertarian Presidential candidate. These guys are not flying their freak flags. These were the guys who in 1971 - the year of Vietnamization, the Weather Underground, My Lai, Helter Skelter, Attica, and Jim Morrison - thought the biggest things going on were price controls and the abandonment of the Bretton Woods accord. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670/47 "2009-04-29T16:13:37Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Hippies? This [David Nolan](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Zm6JXvXXze4/R3AA3FPP9AI/AAAAAAAAAaQ/cXZhW9S6ujc/s200/david-nolan-2.jpg), founder of the Libertarian Pary and this is [John Hospers](http://www.theadvocates.org/celebrities/images/john-hospers.jpg), the first Libertarian Presidential candidate. These guys are not flying their freak flags. These were the guys who in 1971 - the year of Vietnamization, the Weather Underground, My Lai, Helter Skelter, Attica, and Jim Morrison - thought the biggest things going on were price controls and the abandonment of the Bretton Woods accord. I think he was saying that by Ayn Rand’s rather fringe standards that lot were a bunch of hippies in her view (not that she ever said such a thing). It’s all relative. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670/48 "2009-04-29T19:19:14Z")
Rand called Libertarians “hippies of the right,” to distinguish them from “regular” hippies. She actually had three major disagreements with them: 1. They stole her ideas, often verbatim, without giving her credit. 2. They refused to denounce the anarchists in their ranks. 3. They were pushing for immediate political changes without first establishing the necessary ethical system to back them up. The irony is that “Libertarianism” was one of the words she had considered, and rejected, when coming up with a name for her philosophy. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670/49 "2009-04-29T20:11:14Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > I feel embarrassed for anyone trying to make sense of this trainwreck of a thread. Imagine a group called panaches. Some of them are fairly reasonable, and some are batshit insane like in the OP’s link. Wouldn’t you feel emberessed for the reasonable panaches when the insane ones run their mouth in the panache name? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670/50 "2009-04-29T21:36:28Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > 1. They refused to denounce the anarchists in their ranks. 😕 And Rand was such a statist?! ---
**Author:** ![Ace309](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ace309/32/1050_2.png) [@Ace309](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ace309)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670/51 "2009-04-29T21:41:53Z")
[Obligatory EconTalk link to Patri Friedman on Seasteading](http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2008/10/patri_friedman.html) ---
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670/52 "2009-04-29T21:57:41Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > There is a small but not insignificant subset of the gay male community who are actively and noisily misogynistic (in the same way that some lesbians are active man-haters). The presumption here is that Mr Theil is a member of this subset. > > It should be added that (in my limited experience) this subset is not representative of, nor generally liked by, the other members of the gay community, who wish they would STFU. Of course, active and noisy misogyny is unknown among straight males.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670/53 "2009-04-29T22:46:50Z")
> [@cwthree](#): > > Of course, active and noisy misogyny is unknown among straight males.:rolleyes: No, but it does tend to have a distinctly different tenor. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670/54 "2009-04-30T00:00:34Z")
> [@Ace309](#): > > [Obligatory EconTalk link to Patri Friedman on Seasteading](http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2008/10/patri_friedman.html) Hmm . . . Is this really something we should discourage? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670/55 "2009-04-30T00:27:06Z")
Only to the extent that they might rely on the benefits of America’s oppressive democratic regime, like the protection of our tax-supported military. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670/56 "2009-04-30T03:15:26Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😕 And Rand was such a statist?! Yes. She said the state was neccesary to safeguard rights. Without the power of the state actively preventing it, she argued, the family, or community, or whoever, would be free to limit individual rights. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670/57 "2009-04-30T09:33:10Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Yes. She said the state was neccesary to safeguard rights. Without the power of the state actively preventing it, she argued, the family, or community, or whoever, would be free to limit individual rights. That’s… perverse. The state should use its power to restrict people from having their rights restricted by other people? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670/58 "2009-04-30T11:13:51Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > That’s… perverse. The state should use its power to restrict people from having their rights restricted by other people? Yes, that’s perverse. Except that she never said that. According to Rand, “The only proper functions of a government are: the police, to protect you from criminals; the army, to protect you from foreign invaders; and the courts, to protect your property and contracts from breach or fraud by others.” Obviously, she was opposed to anarchy, since there would be no government to protect people’s rights in these three respects. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670/59 "2009-04-30T14:51:09Z")
I’m thinking Rand’s main objection to [anarchists](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism) might have been the fact that the anarchist political tradition is distinctly leftist and communalist. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670/60 "2009-04-30T17:36:43Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I’m thinking Rand’s main objection to [anarchists](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism) might have been the fact that the anarchist political tradition is distinctly leftist and communalist. No, she was opposed to anarchy on philosophical grounds. It would have been unlike her to care about “political tradition;” she just didn’t think that way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libertarians-freak-out/494670.md?page=4)