# Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberte-egalite-fraternite/78679
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [August 29, 2001, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberte-egalite-fraternite/78679 "2001-08-29T10:49:17Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@Demise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Demise)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2001, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberte-egalite-fraternite/78679/41 "2001-08-29T20:25:52Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by bdgr \*
> \*\*
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > \*Originally posted by particlewill \*
> > \*\*Ahhh, France. The Texas of Europe.
> >
> > My opinion of both remains unchanged. \*\*
>
> Piss off. \*\*
Hmm, missed this. I have to agree with your sentiment, bdgr, if not with the severity of your words.
Yes particlewill, Texas sucks and all that. Please stay in North Dakota forever and gloat about how much better your state is. :rolleyes: While you’re there, please apply a red-hot soldering iron to your anus. Mkay, thanks.
---
### Author:  [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2001, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberte-egalite-fraternite/78679/42 "2001-08-29T20:37:59Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by bdgr \*
> Yeah, we make fun of frogs, whatcha gonaa do about it? Surrender to us? Oh, and we blew up your embassy on purpose…F111’s don’t miss.
😃
\
AAH! Ya bunch of surrender monkeys!!!
\
😃
---
### Author:  [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2001, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberte-egalite-fraternite/78679/43 "2001-08-29T20:42:14Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Actually, the individual raising the issue of French hygiene and WWII was the OP’er. Or did you miss that? And, yes, these may be old cliched subjects to blow the dust off of, but he virtually asked for it.
Mommy, mommy! Big brother hit me!
Yeah, but litle brother started it!
:rolleyes:
The OP should have been _beneath the contempt_ of people such as yourselves. A few :wally: smileys would have been enough, and this thread surely would have sank into blissful oblivion.
**LoftStory** evidently doesn’t know better. But we know that you guys do.
> [@](#):
>
> :: Shrug :: I thought it was funny. In fact, I thought it was very funny. I’m not sure if in your mind that takes me out of the ranks of the intelligent or not, but then I myself am in the ranks of those who do not presume to tell others what they should find funny, disagree with it or not.
Two points here.
A) No, it does no take you out of the ranks of the intelligent.
B) No one is presuming to tell others what they should and should not find funny. _I_ am not hesitating in passing judgment. Find whatever you like funny. I will not hesitate, in a public forum such as this, to comment if I find it contemptible.
> [@](#):
>
> Well, I imagine the other poster can speak for themselves, but I did not take any of their posts to be serious. Here in the Pit, if you hand someone a sharp stick they will poke you with it, simple as that – which is why I rarely, if ever, post details of my personal life. No one has posted anything that might seriously be taken as attacking France.
>
> If you feel it is inappropriate to “bash” the French, then perhaps you might better address yourself to the person who so transparently invites it. And you may be convinced he’s a troll, but it seems to me to that you are then in a weak position to attack those tease him.
I am a firm believer in cultivated bad behavior and foul language. I love to see posters I respect get mired in pit-induced hysteria. But the fact that this _is_ the pit does not somehow ameliorate the rank _stupidity_ of some of the postings. Especially from skilled posters.
The fact that he may be a troll only strengthens my position to attack those who tease him in kind. **They should know better**.
My beef’s not with you, **Jodi**. You’re still the bee’s knees, even if you are not keeping a scrapbook of my exploits. 😉
I’m not even vexed with anyone in particular. I just find the twin attitudes of “you bash my country, I’ll bash your fucking country” coupled with “this is the pit, so I can not only be foul but unforgivably stupid” to be particularly distasteful. Most un-fighting ignorance, dude.
MR
---
### Author:  [@omni-not](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/omni-not)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2001, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberte-egalite-fraternite/78679/44 "2001-08-29T20:53:28Z")
Given the typos and grammatical errors in the _French_ portions, I’d say (s)he’s about as French as I am Chinese.
---
### Author:  [@Danimal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danimal)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2001, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberte-egalite-fraternite/78679/45 "2001-08-29T21:37:53Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by omni-not \*
> \*\*Given the typos and grammatical errors in the _French_ portions, I’d say (s)he’s about as French as I am Chinese. \*\*
I can’t read French; can you tell whether the typos or errors are of the kind that a real Frenchman might make? I know plenty of Americans who have no grasp of English spelling or grammar, but I never encountered one who wrote the way **LoftStory** does.
---
### Author:  [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2001, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberte-egalite-fraternite/78679/46 "2001-08-29T21:49:24Z")
> [@](#):
>
> And UncleBeer, I seem to recall learning that the actual XYZ documents were forgeries.
Maeglin, I’m not aware of any allegations of that nature, either American, or French. Why doncha pose your query in GQ? Maybe someone else knows more. For my part, I’ll poke through my history books and see if this data has simply slipped out one o’ me ears.
---
### Author:  [@Alphagene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alphagene)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2001, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberte-egalite-fraternite/78679/47 "2001-08-29T21:53:19Z")
I fixed the title. On my screen, it looked like ZZ Top was trying to send me subliminal messages.
---
### Author:  [@omni-not](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/omni-not)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2001, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberte-egalite-fraternite/78679/48 "2001-08-29T23:30:43Z")
> [@](#):
>
> dans son forme originale plut™t que subir.
Aside from the ‘ô’ converted into the trademark symbol (which is explicable), anyone in France knows that ‘forme’ is a feminine noun and that you should use the feminine possessive, i.e. ‘sa forme’. And the words ‘plutôt que subir’ do not amount to anything; there’s obviously something missing (which, in and of itself, is not an indication that the poster isn’t French).
And this ‘Clair’ on the following line probably means ‘Do you get my meaning?’ It should have been followed by a question mark so as to constitute a truncated sentence, a shortened form of ‘Est-ce clair?’ or ‘C’est clair?’
Not a capital sin, mind you but I’m wondering if this person is pulling our collective leg or wants to ‘impersonate’ someone else for the purpose of ‘discussion’.
---
### Author:  [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2001, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberte-egalite-fraternite/78679/49 "2001-08-29T23:50:36Z")
I too thought the French was a little off but come on - there are DOZENS of American posters on this board who can barely write a coherent sentence. Why should a French person be held to any higher standard? Frankly, his French is a far sight better than the English of a lot of people here.
Also, I’ve never understood why so many people here not only loathe the French but also think it’s okay and “funny” to malign an entire country because of their one bad experience. I seem to recall people here bashing the French who **have never** even been there. If someone came on this board and started a thread about how “Jews are such-and-such and everyone knows it,” I suspect they would be banned within a few minutes. Why is it okay to say the same thing about the entire nation of France?
---
### Author:  [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2001, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberte-egalite-fraternite/78679/50 "2001-08-29T23:57:53Z")
The only thing dumber than making fun of someone based on where they were born would have to be actually taking offence at it.
That said, why is it that French people have no sense of humor? Maybe **Maeglin** could explain this, seeing as he is doubly qualified as both a Francophile and some one with no sense of humor.
---
### Author:  [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2001, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberte-egalite-fraternite/78679/51 "2001-08-30T00:12:18Z")
Sheeeeeee-oot, Cletis! Who done gone and let in all them furriners? Gorsh, but they shore do talk all funny-like!
Wull, Springer’s purt near on the boob tube. I done gotta run on back to the dubble-wide.
---
### Author:  [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2001, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberte-egalite-fraternite/78679/52 "2001-08-30T00:46:59Z")
I have nothing of substance to add to this thread. Heck, I’ve never seen any Jerry Lewis films.
I’m just wondering how many times is that thread title going to change? I’ve seen it three different ways in two different forums today. Every damn time it’s changed. I’m waiting for “Helllllllllllloooooo, ya cheeseburger eatin Civil Warring monkeys!”
---
### Author:  [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2001, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberte-egalite-fraternite/78679/53 "2001-08-30T02:01:57Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by missbunny \*
> \*\*I too thought the French was a little off but come on - there are DOZENS of American posters on this board who can barely write a coherent sentence. Why should a French person be held to any higher standard? \*\*
Of course, there are plenty of people who mispells words or make grammatical errors. But the kind of errors made are a give-away. You can mispell a word, but your mispelled word won’t sound differently than its actual _pronunciation_. A non native speaker will. You can make grammatical errors, but you won’t write a sentence in a way never used in the spoken language. A non native speaker will.
In the case of french, the most typical give-away are the errors concerning gender. Except in the case of very obscure words, no native french speaker will use a feminine article or possessive with a masculine noun. Someone not very litterate could, on the other hand, forget to use the feminine/plural form of a past participle, since they are pronounced in the same way than the masculine form. For instance, “chaise” being feminine, saying “la chaise est casse” instead of “la chaise est casseE”) could be a common mistake. But there’s no way a french person will write “LE chaise est casse”. On the other hand, an actor impersonating a british person speaking french, for instance, will use a “british” accent and add some gender mistakes like “LE chaise”. It’s a typical mistake from english speaker, aven when they’re fluent in french.
Also, none of the english “mistakes” (pointed out by another poster) he made in his post can be related to a french form, or are typically french.
So, my case is that the OP isn’t french, not even a native french speaker (from Quebec,for instance). However, he has a good command of french language. So, perhaps he’s actually living in france…like this other poster who made on another thread a long post explaining how dirty french people are, for instance…hmm?
Concerning the “grenouille” thing…I never heard a staple remover being called “grenouille”, if you’re refering to the item we use at the office. But perhaps it refers to a more uncommon tool? Or perhaps it _used_ to be called that way. Couldn’t find it in my dictionnary, but it’s not the 15 tomes long, universal kind of dictionnary. So, it still could be a very uncommon, or technical, use of the word “grenouille”.
---
### Author:  [@eunoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eunoia)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2001, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberte-egalite-fraternite/78679/54 "2001-08-30T02:25:04Z")
IMHO, “dans son forme originale” is a dead give-away in an otherwise masterful hoax. Loft Story, the OP’s handle is even a popular reality-based TV show in France. Bravo…_presque_!
I’ll probably get blamed for this.
---
### Author:  [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2001, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberte-egalite-fraternite/78679/55 "2001-08-30T02:28:40Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Miller \*
> \*\*That said, why is it that French people have no sense of humor? Maybe **Maeglin** could explain this, seeing as he is doubly qualified as both a Francophile and some one with no sense of humor. \*\*
Because most often it’s not intended to be funny, but to insult or to mislead people in believing something (and it does mislead them).
A funny story depicting a french dirty guy is a funny story. The statement “french are dirty” isn’t funny. It’s a xenophobic insult.
---
### Author:  [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2001, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberte-egalite-fraternite/78679/56 "2001-08-30T03:05:01Z")
**clairobscur** wanted the OP’s OP translated into French. While it’s been a few years since I took French, I didn’t see that happen, so I thought I’d give it a whirl. And for the most part this will be literal because most of this looks like someone trying to be very literal.
**I have notice that there are many postings against France on this message board. I would like to tell against them.**
J’ai vu qu’il y a beaucoup de messages contre la France sur ce MB-ci. Je voudrais dire contre eux.
**I have live in France from since my birth (except for one term in Washington dc, your great capital city! ha ha!), so perhaps I shall know best how splendid is my home country than the big USA.**
Je suis habité en France depuis mon naissance[sup]1[/sup] (sauf une terme dans Washington, dc, ta grande citée capitale! Ha ha!), eh bien peut-être que je saurais mieux si splendide est mon pays originale que le grand USA[sup]2[/sup]
**Someone in an other section complained that french are dirty because they do not bath every day and because in Paris there is dogs making toilet on the ground. I am not to disagree, but instead to say “why is this so bad?” It is a symbol of true liberty (something America does not understand though we presented them a statue for their New York) that we do not degrade ourselves with picking up the dog’s toilet with our hands in bags like I have seen in the USA. THIS is dirty! I am rather to have it in my shoes than my hands, to be honest.**
[Broken up because I don’t want to have such a big fuckin’ chunk of French looming above me]
Quelqu’un dans une autre section s’est plaigné[sup]3[/sup] que les Français sont dégôutant parce qu’ils ne se lavent pas chaque jour et parce que dans Paris il y a beaucoup de chiens façcant la toilette sur le terre. Je ne suis pas à desaccord, mais au lieu de dire “Pourquoi c’est si mal?” C’est un symbole de liberté pur (quelque chose l’Amerique ne comprend pas, bien que nous les avons présentés une statue pour leur Nouvelle York) que nous ne nous degradons avec le reprandent de la toilette des chiens avec nos mains comme j’ai vu dans le USA. C’EST sale! Je préfère que ça reste sur mes chaussures que mes mains, pour être honnête.
Okay, this is enough. The idioms the OP used are NOT in line with what a normal French person would use even if said person were fucking illiterate. In my 13 years of French schooling (part done by French people from different areas of France, thus providing me with a decent cultural background) I have never come across the kind of grammatical structures present in the OP, such that my conclusion is:
pure and unadulterated bullshit. A waste of my time and of the other participants in this thread. The numbered notations are places where CLEARLY these are not French constructions. I cannot speak for the English education one would receive in France, but I seriously doubt, due to the education of several EuroDopers I’ve read here, that these are the norm. In particular, the non-confusion around areas in sentences with reflexive verbs made me very suspicious from the get-go.
---
### Author:  [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2001, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberte-egalite-fraternite/78679/57 "2001-08-30T03:07:29Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Demise \*
> \*\*
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > \*Originally posted by bdgr \*
> > \*\*
> >
> > > [@](#):
> > >
> > > \*Originally posted by particlewill \*
> > > \*\*Ahhh, France. The Texas of Europe.
> > >
> > > My opinion of both remains unchanged. \*\*
> >
> > Piss off. \*\*
>
> Hmm, missed this. I have to agree with your sentiment, bdgr, if not with the severity of your words.
>
> Yes particlewill, Texas sucks and all that. Please stay in North Dakota forever and gloat about how much better your state is. :rolleyes: While you’re there, please apply a red-hot soldering iron to your anus. Mkay, thanks. \*\*
And I missed the Nort Dakota bit. SO let me get this straight particle…Your from ND. A state thats chief export is thier children who grow up and figure out no sane person would live there. The state bird is a beer can and the state tree a telephone pole. A state where people actually think that pickeling fish in lye is a good idea(ok, the lefsa is cool…). People who havent figured out that between the winters and the floods, God must not want them there. I went up there for chistmas and it was 48 freaking degrees below zero, not including the chill factor. What kinda gene pool could posibly have decided that this, out of all this countrys glory, was the place to settle.
And being from North Dakota, you have actually put down Texas? I mean, if you were from some inhabitable state, I maybe could understand.
Oh well, I guess I better shut up before my wife walks in and sees this…Shes from North Dakota.
---
### Author:  [@Lexicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lexicon)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2001, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberte-egalite-fraternite/78679/58 "2001-08-30T03:31:55Z")
**Men** are from Mars, _Women_ are from Venus… Earth is right in the middle, so that is where they both go to hang out and meet one another.
…which is the exact problem Belgium has with **Germany** and _France_.
---
### Author:  [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2001, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberte-egalite-fraternite/78679/59 "2001-08-30T03:40:22Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by John Corrado \*
> _(except for one term in Washington dc, your great capital city! ha ha!),_
>
> Second, your use of “term” is undefined. In America, a “term” tends to indicate that one has served in a political office for an election cycle- therefore, by stating you have spent one term in Washington DC, you indicate that at some point you were a Congressman. As this seems unlikely, perhaps you mean a year of school, which we in America refer to as a “school year”.
Let’s be fair here. In Australia, a term is a three month period at school. To say that “term” usually means a political term is unfair, as it has broader meanings. Also, I think the English use term the same way as Australians do, and I would expect a Frenchman to be more familiar with English-English than American-English (even if he did spend three months in Washington D.C.).
Also, to everyone who has referred to it in this conversation, as soon as you say something along the lines of “If it wasn’t for us, you’d be speaking German now, Frenchy”, you lose all credibility. Get over it. The US wasn’t the only country to fight Germany in the war, and you personally didn’t save anyone from speaking anything - why should anyone respect you because of something your Grandfather did?
This is a pet peeve. Everytime France is mentioned, some American has to say “If it wasn’t for us…”, and I find it irritating. Has America achieved so little that they have to show off about this one thing even after all these years?
Oh, and I think the OP is a hoax.
---
### Author:  [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2001, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberte-egalite-fraternite/78679/60 "2001-08-30T04:20:27Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Okay, this is enough. The idioms the OP used are NOT in line with what a normal French person would use even if said person were fucking illiterate. In my 13 years of French schooling (part done by French people from different areas of France, thus providing me with a decent cultural background) I have never come across the kind of grammatical structures present in the OP, such that my conclusion is:
To be fair the grammatical structures look alot like alta vista’s 🙂
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberte-egalite-fraternite/78679.md?page=2)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberte-egalite-fraternite/78679.md?page=4)