# "Liberty Movement" (Ron Paul followers) asserts that it's in the conservative driver's seat **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 9, 2012, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberty-movement-ron-paul-followers-asserts-that-its-in-the-conservative-drivers-seat/643528 "2012-12-09T20:17:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberty-movement-ron-paul-followers-asserts-that-its-in-the-conservative-drivers-seat/643528/1 "2012-12-09T20:17:02Z")
Most of this somewhat turgid article says the GOP POTUS campaign loss happened because the GOP was not hardcore _enough_ and the true believers it needed walked away. It ends by asserting that the GOP needs them desperately to win so the future is bright for the Ron Paul faction. Is that specific part of the analysis correct? . [The GOP Is Dying Because The Liberty Movement Is Thriving](http://www.alt-market.com/articles/1197-the-gop-is-dying-because-the-liberty-movement-is-thriving) > [@](#): > > Ironically, those of us in the movement who have deeply considered the election aftermath have predominantly concluded that it is WE who have taken the mojo out of the GOP, and frankly, we’re happy to do so… > > The GOP is dying because it no longer supports or nurtures the progress of true and traditional conservative values or the people who hold them. The GOP is fading into the bowels of political history because real conservatives are LEAVING it behind, and searching for other more legitimate avenues. These are the cold hard facts which the establishment and those who aid in its dominance have tried to keep out of the mainstream limelight post election. They have concocted a swarm of unsupported and absurd talking points which have been unleashed shotgun-style on the unsuspecting American populace. Their goal? To hide the fact that the Liberty Movement has gained enough momentum to bury the Neo-Con led GOP and even swing state contests at will, simply by not participating in the farce. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberty-movement-ron-paul-followers-asserts-that-its-in-the-conservative-drivers-seat/643528/2 "2012-12-09T21:01:57Z")
If you took all of the Ron Paul votes for President and added them to Romney’s total, he still would have lost. Heck, take _all_ of the third-party votes and add them to the Republicans, and they _still_ lose. So the only way this can be true is if the “more legitimate avenue” the “Liberty Movement” is moving to is the Democratic Party. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberty-movement-ron-paul-followers-asserts-that-its-in-the-conservative-drivers-seat/643528/3 "2012-12-09T21:12:37Z")
There is a Smurf’s ass-hair of truth in there: the GOP is currently in trouble because the base is increasingly dividing themselves among conservatives and “true conservatives.” However, lets just get this straight: for all the fawning from some sectors over Ron Paul, had he been the Republican candidate, I’d be surprised if he got 35% of the vote. These fringe positions on isolationism and Austrian economics weren’t even taken seriously by St. Ronnie. They are not the path to victory. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberty-movement-ron-paul-followers-asserts-that-its-in-the-conservative-drivers-seat/643528/4 "2012-12-09T21:41:53Z")
Wow, Ron Paul supporters declaring that they are _thisclose_ to being a politically relevant force. In other news, it’s Sunday again, which is actually the less regular and predictable occurrence of the two. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberty-movement-ron-paul-followers-asserts-that-its-in-the-conservative-drivers-seat/643528/5 "2012-12-09T22:37:50Z")
> [@](#): > > . . . simply by not participating . . . Yeah, that works . . . :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberty-movement-ron-paul-followers-asserts-that-its-in-the-conservative-drivers-seat/643528/6 "2012-12-09T22:40:21Z")
The libertarians need to realize that they’ve all reported for duty. There’s no hidden base of libertarian supporters out there waiting for the call. Every libertarian in America voted for Ron Paul in 2012 and he lost decisively. The libertarians have to swallow this result and accept that they are never going to elect a President. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberty-movement-ron-paul-followers-asserts-that-its-in-the-conservative-drivers-seat/643528/7 "2012-12-09T23:02:45Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The libertarians need to realize that they’ve all reported for duty. There’s no hidden base of libertarian supporters out there waiting for the call. Every libertarian in America voted for Ron Paul in 2012 and he lost decisively. The libertarians have to swallow this result and accept that they are never going to elect a President. I’ve long noticed that Ron Paul’s performance is inversely correlated with how similar something is to a general election. General elections he does worst at, then better at primaries, especially in small states. Even better at caucuses. Better still at straw polls. Really well on internet polls, especially those that allow people to vote multiple times. Probably best of all in spamming Youtube comments and stuff of that sort. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberty-movement-ron-paul-followers-asserts-that-its-in-the-conservative-drivers-seat/643528/8 "2012-12-09T23:19:21Z")
> [@](#): > > Every libertarian in America voted for Ron Paul in 2012 and he lost decisively. Definitely an overstatement-- I’m sure at least some of them instead voted for someone who was at least slightly libertarian. Ron Paul is not and never has been a libertarian-- He’s just a hard-right conservative who happens to like pot. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberty-movement-ron-paul-followers-asserts-that-its-in-the-conservative-drivers-seat/643528/9 "2012-12-09T23:28:09Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The libertarians need to realize that they’ve all reported for duty. There’s no hidden base of libertarian supporters out there waiting for the call. Every libertarian in America voted for Ron Paul in 2012 and he lost decisively. The libertarians have to swallow this result and accept that they are never going to elect a President. I guess that’s why they’re talking, as in the OP, about taking over the GOP. Certainly they have no third-party future. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberty-movement-ron-paul-followers-asserts-that-its-in-the-conservative-drivers-seat/643528/10 "2012-12-09T23:34:37Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Definitely an overstatement-- I’m sure at least some of them instead voted for someone who was at least slightly libertarian. Ron Paul is not and never has been a libertarian-- He’s just a hard-right conservative who happens to like pot. So? Name a pol who **is** a real libertarian. And a real pol. ---
**Author:** ![Algorithm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/algorithm/32/12204_2.png) [@Algorithm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algorithm)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberty-movement-ron-paul-followers-asserts-that-its-in-the-conservative-drivers-seat/643528/11 "2012-12-10T00:56:24Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If you took all of the Ron Paul votes for President and added them to Romney’s total, he still would have lost. Heck, take _all_ of the third-party votes and add them to the Republicans, and they _still_ lose. So the only way this can be true is if the “more legitimate avenue” the “Liberty Movement” is moving to is the Democratic Party. Alternatively, take all of Ron Paul’s primary votes, add them to Romney’s totals in the general, and he still loses. Even the most charitable assumptions (that a balance of zero RP primary voters went Romney in November) can’t lead one to the conclusion that the “liberty movement” could have affected the outcome. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberty-movement-ron-paul-followers-asserts-that-its-in-the-conservative-drivers-seat/643528/12 "2012-12-10T02:01:10Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Most of this somewhat turgid article says the GOP POTUS campaign loss happened because the GOP was not hardcore _enough_ and the true believers it needed walked away. God, I haven’t always been the best of men. But if you give me this I **promise** to build a cathedral. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberty-movement-ron-paul-followers-asserts-that-its-in-the-conservative-drivers-seat/643528/13 "2012-12-10T03:07:23Z")
Libertarianism has a future in the conservative movement and the Republican Party but Ron Paul represents the past, not the future of Libertarianism considering that of all the notable candidates this year, Congressman Paul was probably the most backward looking\*. The future of Libertarianism lies more in a candidate like Governor Gary Johnson. Incidentally I might add Libertarianism’s position is rather comparable to where the Socialists were a hundred years ago. \*Something I made up: Mitt Romney wants to take America back to 2002 Newt Gingrich wants to take America back to 1994 Rick Santorum wants to take America back to 1955 Ron Paul wants to take America back to 1885 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberty-movement-ron-paul-followers-asserts-that-its-in-the-conservative-drivers-seat/643528/14 "2012-12-10T03:16:40Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Definitely an overstatement-- I’m sure at least some of them instead voted for someone who was at least slightly libertarian. Ron Paul is not and never has been a libertarian-- He’s just a hard-right conservative who happens to like pot. So the guy who was far too extreme to get elected is far too mainstream to represent libertarianism. Yeah, the libertarians are definitely poised to take over. They just better hope the Greens don’t make their move and force a showdown in the 2016 election. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberty-movement-ron-paul-followers-asserts-that-its-in-the-conservative-drivers-seat/643528/15 "2012-12-10T03:34:49Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > So? Name a pol who **is** a real libertarian. And a real pol. No what a politician"s real beliefs are, if one wins while declaring her/himself to be a Libertarian they will embrace that politician like a long-lost child. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberty-movement-ron-paul-followers-asserts-that-its-in-the-conservative-drivers-seat/643528/16 "2012-12-10T03:39:03Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The libertarians need to realize that they’ve all reported for duty. There’s no hidden base of libertarian supporters out there waiting for the call. Every libertarian in America voted for Ron Paul in 2012 and he lost decisively. Not all. I didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberty-movement-ron-paul-followers-asserts-that-its-in-the-conservative-drivers-seat/643528/17 "2012-12-10T03:55:39Z")
“We lost because we’re not pure enough.” The logic (and I use that word loosely) of the zealot. You don’t get more votes by appealing to fewer people. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberty-movement-ron-paul-followers-asserts-that-its-in-the-conservative-drivers-seat/643528/18 "2012-12-10T03:58:21Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Not all. I didn’t. You didn’t? And the libertarians only missed the Presidency by one vote! ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberty-movement-ron-paul-followers-asserts-that-its-in-the-conservative-drivers-seat/643528/19 "2012-12-10T04:28:26Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Incidentally I might add Libertarianism’s position is rather comparable to where the Socialists were a hundred years ago. Nope. Debs got 6% in 1912 and Johnson got only 1%. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberty-movement-ron-paul-followers-asserts-that-its-in-the-conservative-drivers-seat/643528/20 "2012-12-10T05:22:20Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Every libertarian in America voted for Ron Paul in 2012… No, some of them voted for Obama. Though I do agree with your argument: > [@](#): > > The libertarians need to realize that they’ve all reported for duty. There’s no hidden base of libertarian supporters out there waiting for the call. Every libertarian in America voted for Ron Paul in 2012 and he lost decisively. The libertarians have to swallow this result and accept that they are never going to elect a President. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liberty-movement-ron-paul-followers-asserts-that-its-in-the-conservative-drivers-seat/643528.md?page=2)