# Libs won't criticize Obama? See Tom Toles 11/26/08 **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 26, 2008, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libs-wont-criticize-obama-see-tom-toles-11-26-08/474544 "2008-11-26T12:50:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libs-wont-criticize-obama-see-tom-toles-11-26-08/474544/21 "2008-11-26T23:18:18Z")
Here’s the link again: [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/opinions/cartoonsandvideos/toles\_main.html?name=Toles&date=11262008](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/opinions/cartoonsandvideos/toles_main.html?name=Toles&date=11262008) It shows a man lying on the ground labeled “Economy”. He’s been beaten, has a cut cheek, a black eye, several lumps on his head, his clothes are dirty and dishevelled, and his tongue is hanging out of his mouth. Behind the prone man is an ambulance, marked “ambulance”. To the left, a man with closecropped hair and large hornlike ears (who is apparently Obama) says to the prone man, “And we’re putting the Wall Street guys who did this to you in charge of your recovery.” To the prone man’s right, one man in a suit whispers to another “He’s trying to give it a ‘jolt’.” Below, in the small area where Toles sketches himself, the man who is apparently Obama is saying, “They have ‘hands on’ experience.” This has been another edition of “Describing Electoral Cartoons”. “Describing Electoral Cartoons” is a service of **Captain Amazing** and is available upon request. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libs-wont-criticize-obama-see-tom-toles-11-26-08/474544/22 "2008-11-26T23:18:23Z")
> [@](#): > > And I’m torn about that concept. In a healthy society, perhaps we always need someone who is willing and able to snark about the President. But it would be nice, too, to imagine a society in which we could simply get behind the President, recognize that for the next four years he’s OUR President, and do our level and collective best to help make his administration a success. That depends on who you mean by “we”. If the President is a good man, with a good vision (as of course he is in the ideal world), then the citizenry at large should, of course, get behind him and help him. But the media, I think, has a responsibility to be as harshly critical as they can be of whomever is in power. Nobody’s perfect, and so everybody needs someone to point out how they’re imperfect, so they can work towards getting closer to perfection. This isn’t even really a conflict, actually. Every sector of the country helps the nation and its government in different ways, and criticizing the administration as harshly as possible is, in fact, the way that the media helps them. Yes, we should follow a good leader, but there’s a difference (sometimes a complete opposition, in fact) between following and toadying. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libs-wont-criticize-obama-see-tom-toles-11-26-08/474544/23 "2008-11-26T23:51:36Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I thought the way that some liberals openly hoped for disaster in Iraq was contemptible. But not contemptible enough to remember their names? It’s a miserable ad hominem and straw man rolled into one. Many liberals were opposed to Iraq and predicted disaster, but not a single party leader or pundit for the left hoped for disaster. You might be able to find a poster on a message board somewhere, but it was never party policy or even a talking point. In short, your statement is not consistent with reality. Disaster was inevitable in Iraq, and some liberals opposed it. Far fewer conservatives opposed it. How the fascists thought that a long term occupation of a distant and volatile land divided by religion and chock full of small arms weapons would turn out to be a long term “welcoming us with flowers” was intellectually dishonest in the extreme. It was wishful thinking by fascists who like wars as the only way to solve problems. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libs-wont-criticize-obama-see-tom-toles-11-26-08/474544/24 "2008-11-27T00:42:16Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Many Liberals are howling in anger at Obama’s cabinet choices. The hard part is knowing which ones are true liberals and which ones are right wingers posing as liberals to rabble-rouse. I think [William Greider](http://www.thenation.com/doc/20081208/greider_web?rel=hp_currently) is the real deal: > [@](#): > > A year ago, when Barack Obama said it was time to turn the page, his campaign declaration seemed to promise a fresh start for Washington. I, for one, failed to foresee Obama would turn the page backward. The president-elect’s lineup for key governing positions has opted for continuity, not change. Virtually all of his leading appointments are restoring the Clinton presidency, only without Mr. Bill. In some important ways, Obama’s selections seem designed to sustain the failing policies of George W. Bush. > > This is not the last word and things are changing rapidly. But Obama’s choices have begun to define him. His victory, it appears, was a triumph for the cautious center-right politics that has described the Democratic party for several decades. Those of us who expected more were duped, not so much by Obama but by our own wishful thinking. > > Let us stipulate that these are all honorable people, smart and experienced veterans of Washington combat. But they represent the Democratic party that mainly sees itself as managerial–making government work better. The long era of conservative dominance has taught them to keep their distance from big reform ideas that promise fundamental change of the system. Their operating style is incremental and cautiously practical. They conscientiously avoid (or actively block) propositions that sound too liberal or radical. Alas, Obama is coming to power at a critical moment when incrementalism is irrelevant. The system is in collapse. Financial chaos won’t wait for patient deliberations. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libs-wont-criticize-obama-see-tom-toles-11-26-08/474544/25 "2008-11-27T01:28:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And I’m torn about that concept. In a healthy society, perhaps we always need someone who is willing and able to snark about the President. But it would be nice, too, to imagine a society in which we could simply get behind the President, recognize that for the next four years he’s OUR President, and do our level and collective best to help make his administration a success. I hope you’ll bear those words in mind, if the Pubs try to obstruct Obama the way they did Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libs-wont-criticize-obama-see-tom-toles-11-26-08/474544/26 "2008-11-27T04:13:06Z")
lol…the liberal criticizing is only begun IMHO. I think a lot of the more rabid lefty types are going to be making their voices of protest heard in the next year or so when Obama doesn’t immediately do everything they have wanted since before Clinton. Hell, they criticized Clinton quite a bit while he was in office because he adopted what a lot of them considered ‘Republican Lite’ type policies (it was kind of funny in a sad sort of way seeing Clinton getting hit from both sides…which is what happens when you take a middle ground I suppose). I think Obama is in for the same sorts of things if he does what I THINK he’s going to do in his first term. And the funny thing is that if he DOES do what I think he will, he will be a hero to the center and will win his next election by a landslide…and the grumbling of the left (and the foam of the right) will be drowned out in the roar of approval. JMHO there and it’s still early days, but as a poster said up thread, anyone who thinks the left has been silent about Obama hasn’t been really paying attention to the real left wing blogs or sites…or even really paying attention here on the SD to some of our board lefty types. -XT [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libs-wont-criticize-obama-see-tom-toles-11-26-08/474544.md?page=1)