# Libya and Obama; it's the last straw for me **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 19, 2011, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-and-obama-its-the-last-straw-for-me/575212 "2011-03-19T00:40:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-and-obama-its-the-last-straw-for-me/575212/101 "2011-03-20T03:30:46Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Cripes, you’re an idiot. > > Regards, > Shodan I’m sorry you think that. You might ask yourself, what would happen if Kah-Daffy knew all the things you posted? Think hard about this, allow the thoughts to penetrate your mullet and soak in. Regardless, Lobohan ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-and-obama-its-the-last-straw-for-me/575212/102 "2011-03-20T04:57:22Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > Second, we aren’t “invading”, nor will we “invade”, which is one way this can be differentiated from the Iraq debacle. Iraq started with a no-fly zone. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-and-obama-its-the-last-straw-for-me/575212/103 "2011-03-20T05:04:18Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Iraq started with a no-fly zone. Iraq started with a cowboy idiot with a personal agenda. Apples and oranges. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-and-obama-its-the-last-straw-for-me/575212/104 "2011-03-20T05:27:54Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > Iraq started with a cowboy idiot with a personal agenda. Apples and oranges. More similar than one would like to think: MARCH 19, 2011 OBAMA: ‘Today we are part of a broad coalition. We are answering the calls of a threatened people. And we are acting in the interests of the United States and the world’… MARCH 19, 2003 BUSH: ‘American and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm Iraq, to free its people and to defend the world from grave danger’… ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-and-obama-its-the-last-straw-for-me/575212/105 "2011-03-20T05:34:56Z")
Since a lot of Libyans crossed over the border and fought against American troops in Iraq, why do we owe them anything. Libya is not a fan of America. They have no Democratic history. If we help them toss over Kadaffy, what follows? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-and-obama-its-the-last-straw-for-me/575212/106 "2011-03-20T06:01:31Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > No, John, nothing about this makes me feel better. But I find legitimate reasons for our involvement that go beyond the “imminent threat” argument" that Bush lied to use to get us mired in Iraq. We have allies who have asked for our help. In a complete 180 from their opinion on Iraq, the Arab League is nearly unanimous in wanting us in there this time. We won’t be seen as unwanted invaders, but invited supporters. > > Your mileage is free to vary. I won’t argue that this is better than our invasion of Iraq. But that’s a really low bar to measure against. Still, how is this in our strategic interest? What are we trying to accomplish, and how does this military action aid in accomplishing that goal? Do we want Kadhaffi out? What replaces him? Do we just want to restore the status quo ante? What happens when Libya descends into civil war? Is that good or bad for us? I honestly don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-and-obama-its-the-last-straw-for-me/575212/107 "2011-03-20T06:03:08Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > More similar than one would like to think: > > MARCH 19, 2011 > OBAMA: ‘Today we are part of a broad coalition. We are answering the calls of a threatened people. And we are acting in the interests of the United States and the world’… > > MARCH 19, 2003 > BUSH: ‘American and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm Iraq, to free its people and to defend the world from grave danger’… > **[Political Humor](https://www.liveabout.com/political-humor-4687972)** > > Red or blue, young or old, stay up to date on what's happening in DC, without taking it too seriously. Enjoy the best jokes about our political process, current events, and leaders. > [@](#): > > Want a big international COALITION? Tired of getting spurned by hot European girls because of your “unilateralism”? > > Now, YOU can experience the COALITION ENLARGEMENT you’ve always wanted with a MASSIVE accounting breakthrough!! 100 GUARANTEED!!! > > THE APPEARANCE OF SIZE DOES MATTER! > > With the help of our GUARANTEED plan you too will go from being a little bush to a THICK, MIGHTY LOG in no time! Best yet, our plan has NO Painful and Hard-To-Use international pumps like the UN, and NO annoying allies who might actually try and assert themselves! > > With our plan, you can GROW that HUGE THROBBING COALITION in just THREE EASY STEPS!!! > [@](#): > > If you follow the above 4 steps, you will be GUARANTEED to ERECT a bigger coalition that will leave them all too WILLING to drop trou, bend over and do ANYTHING YOU TELL 'EM TO!!! > > For more details, contact Ari F. at [http://www.whitehouse.gov/](http://www.whitehouse.gov/) > > “‘Enlarge your coalition’ made me a man!” - George B. 🙂 It was a Joke when Bush the lesser mentioned it, his coalition could not hold a candle to the one his Father had or Obama has. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-and-obama-its-the-last-straw-for-me/575212/108 "2011-03-20T06:05:35Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > More similar than one would like to think: > > MARCH 19, 2011 > OBAMA: ‘Today we are part of a broad coalition. We are answering the calls of a threatened people. And we are acting in the interests of the United States and the world’… > > MARCH 19, 2003 > BUSH: ‘American and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm Iraq, to free its people and to defend the world from grave danger’… Serious question: wasn’t one of the many many charges laid against Bush re: Iraq that he was, frankly, lying through his teeth about being part of a coalition, that it was pretty much a small smattering of countries who wanted to “kiss up” to the U.S.? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-and-obama-its-the-last-straw-for-me/575212/109 "2011-03-20T06:12:55Z")
The Seychelles and Gabon each donated a toaster oven. Well, actually, the same one… ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-and-obama-its-the-last-straw-for-me/575212/110 "2011-03-20T08:35:07Z")
Gadaffi and his whole regime deserves a Tomahawk in the face for Lockerbye. Better two decades too late than never. Bye bye Daffy. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-and-obama-its-the-last-straw-for-me/575212/111 "2011-03-20T09:07:46Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Yes, because the way to prevent future incursions into other countries is to vote Republican :rolleyes: Where did I say I would vote Republican? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-and-obama-its-the-last-straw-for-me/575212/112 "2011-03-20T09:17:32Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > Fourth, we aren’t the instigators here, the French and British are. _They_ have a vested interest in stability in that region. When we asked for their support in our battle against Saddam in Iraq, they backed us up. They’re now asking us to back _them_ up. Do we turn down our allies when they didn’t turn _us_ down? Should we not have their back when they had ours? If the British jump off a cliff, should we too? It would have been better if the allies had not backed us up. A good friend would have said, “Whoa, wait a minute, man. Think about it.” France did just that, and got nothing but abuse in return. We should be playing the role of France this time. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-and-obama-its-the-last-straw-for-me/575212/113 "2011-03-20T09:29:53Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Has it occurred to you that answering your questions in public would be pretty stupid and give Kah-Daffy the upper hand in determining his strategy? Oh, for Pete’s sake, you _are_ an idiot. What difference would it make if he knew our goals? At least then, somebody would. Right now, the war plan might as well be buried in a jar in the back lawn of the White House. If the desired results and potential aftermaths of a military action cannot be clearly articulated, it’s probably not one that should be taken. And, hell, maybe Qaddaffi would agree! “OK, you want me to leave Benghazi alone? Deal. They can have it. I’ll just sit here and continue to rule the rest of the country.” Then we can declare victory, hang a “Mission Accomplished” banner across Pennsylvania Avenue, and bask in our own goodness. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-and-obama-its-the-last-straw-for-me/575212/114 "2011-03-20T09:41:22Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > What difference would it make if he knew our goals? I think we should inform Gadaffi of our precise goals: to exterminate him and all of his scum sons. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-and-obama-its-the-last-straw-for-me/575212/115 "2011-03-20T09:47:20Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > I think we should inform Gadaffi of our precise goals: to exterminate him and all of his scum sons. OK, that’s a perfectly defined goal. Then what? ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-and-obama-its-the-last-straw-for-me/575212/116 "2011-03-20T10:08:55Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > OK, that’s a perfectly defined goal. Then what? Then we take all the funds he had stuffed away in Swiss bank accounts and other international locations. This should be able to fund a good deal of the war costs. The Lockerbye victims can get a couple of hundred of million dollars of it too. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-and-obama-its-the-last-straw-for-me/575212/117 "2011-03-20T10:39:21Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Then we take all the funds he had stuffed away in Swiss bank accounts and other international locations. This should be able to fund a good deal of the war costs. The Lockerbye victims can get a couple of hundred of million dollars of it too. Ah, the long-term view. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-and-obama-its-the-last-straw-for-me/575212/118 "2011-03-20T10:49:09Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Ah, the long-term view. No. I leave that to those that demand absolute certainty. Personally I’d rather act and be wrong, than to do nothing and be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Nancarrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@Nancarrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nancarrow)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-and-obama-its-the-last-straw-for-me/575212/119 "2011-03-20T12:57:42Z")
The old ‘doing something’ fallacy never gets tired. “Something must be done!” -\> “Kicking puppies is something” -\> “We must kick puppies!” (For the slow… I do not consider Libyan government forces ‘puppies’. I am pointing out an error in reasoning. Replace ‘kick’ with ‘x’ and ‘puppies’ with ‘y’, and the above is still a fallacy _for all possible values of x and y_.) (For the even slower… > [@](#): > > Personally I’d rather act and be wrong, than to do nothing and be wrong. is a foolish maxim to live by) ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-and-obama-its-the-last-straw-for-me/575212/120 "2011-03-20T13:27:59Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > I think we should inform Gadaffi of our precise goals: to exterminate him and all of his scum sons. And that’s our job beacuse??? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-and-obama-its-the-last-straw-for-me/575212.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-and-obama-its-the-last-straw-for-me/575212.md?page=7)