# Libya: George W. Bush would had done a better job **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 14, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-george-w-bush-would-had-done-a-better-job/574684 "2011-03-14T18:26:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-george-w-bush-would-had-done-a-better-job/574684/101 "2011-03-18T11:38:52Z")
The general reaction I have from my friends reaching me through Libya and Egypt is that Obama has handled this fairly well. They didn’t want outside guns. They wanted legitimacy. And they’ve got it. The guns from Egypt wouldn’t be there (Egypt is not outside), without the US saying ‘yes, please, do that.’ The no fly zone wouldn’t be there without the US. They want to fight for their freedom, and not have it imposed from above. The US has this rep for breaking shit, you know? As far as I can tell, from the PoV of Joe Middle Eastern Rebel, the US is doing the right thing here. Be the French in our own Revolution. Give advice. Give guns. Level the playing field a bit, perhaps. Lift the heavy diplomatic weights. But let _them_ fight for freedom. Mssr. Lafayette, you are not forgotten! ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-george-w-bush-would-had-done-a-better-job/574684/102 "2011-03-18T13:00:03Z")
Well, with the UN resolution now passed, UK and French air assets are [already on their way](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12784729). ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-george-w-bush-would-had-done-a-better-job/574684/103 "2011-03-18T13:13:30Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > So it is every nation’s business to commit militarily to protect all humans anywhere? The US should have intervened during the Tiananmen Square massacre and during massacres in Tibet and Myanmar and should militarily intervene to correct the human rights abuses that are South Korea? And on and on and on. > > If not, then why not? Which circumstances warrant our involvement and what sort of involvement? I quote Russell Zisky: Never hit anyone in anger, unless you’re absolutely sure you can get away with it. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-george-w-bush-would-had-done-a-better-job/574684/104 "2011-03-18T16:43:33Z")
It is obvious that Obama played it perfectly. He did not “cowboy” it alone. He did not make too much noise but worked behind the scenes in the UN. He got other countries to commit including Arab countries. It could not have been done better. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-george-w-bush-would-had-done-a-better-job/574684/105 "2011-03-18T16:46:48Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > The general reaction I have from my friends reaching me through Libya and Egypt is that Obama has handled this fairly well… Anecdotal though it may be, I’m glad to hear that. The inability of many in the US to learn from, much less even identify, the lessons from prior (mis)adventures is saddening. And the arrogance required to consistently advocate for our intervention is simply astounding. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-george-w-bush-would-had-done-a-better-job/574684/106 "2011-03-18T18:17:34Z")
> [@The\_Amazing\_Hanna](#): > > I never thought I’d say this, but I really think the previous President would have done a much better job handling the Libyan situation. > > For almost a month now, Obama has been sitting on his hands, “expressing concern” but not lifting a finger to help people being massacred by the horrid, delusional, tin-pot dictator Gadaffi. Eh. His Dad encouraged the Kurds and the Marsh Arabs to revolt against Saddam, then sat on his hands not lifting a finger while they were massacred by a horrid, delusional tin-pot dictator. Years later, he himself intervened against that dictator. The jury’s still out on exactly how many people were massacred in _that_ intervention, but it was ugly. If the current prez _has_ been deliberately stalling the Security Council (and what conservative portrays the UN as a paragon of decisive action?) he just got his hat handed to him: [U.N. chief calls on Gadhafi to ‘cease all hostilities’](http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europe/03/18/spain.ban.libya/index.html?iref=allsearch) ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-george-w-bush-would-had-done-a-better-job/574684/107 "2011-03-18T18:22:49Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > “Look busy” is not a foreign policy. It is, however, excellent [bumper-sticker theology](http://www.stickergiant.com/look-busy_y1964.html). ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-george-w-bush-would-had-done-a-better-job/574684/108 "2011-03-18T18:39:30Z")
And Obama also got China and Russia to abstain from veto’ing a no fly zone. He’s clearly made progress in dealing with China. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-george-w-bush-would-had-done-a-better-job/574684/109 "2011-03-18T19:03:08Z")
> [@NY Times](#): > > President Obama ordered Colonel Muammar el-Qaddafi on Friday to implement a cease-fire immediately and stop all attacks on Libyan civilians or face military action from the United States and its allies in Europe and the Arab world. Source: [http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/19/world/africa/19libya.html?hp](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/19/world/africa/19libya.html?hp) I for one am glad Obama didn’t attempt this unilaterally. He really covered his international diplomatic bases, which is a good thing overall. It takes more effort and time, but in the long run is much better. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-george-w-bush-would-had-done-a-better-job/574684/110 "2011-03-18T22:59:28Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > And Obama also got China and Russia to abstain from veto’ing a no fly zone. He’s clearly made progress in dealing with China. What do you mean Obama did? Clearly James Corden did. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-george-w-bush-would-had-done-a-better-job/574684/111 "2011-03-18T23:59:51Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > I agree that Obama is a weak push over with no principles or convictions. But that doesn’t mean that Libya is an example of it. We have no national responsibility to overthrow despots. We went into Iraq 10 years ago to overthrow a despot who was much worse for us than Quadaffi, and we are still there spending billions, Americans dying with no end in sight. Meanwhile we no longer have a program for poor people to get heating oil. How about having cheaper heating fuel by allowing more coal, oil, and natural gas mining. We don’t have to spend a dime to do that. Plus Iraq has proved to be a victory for the US and democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2011, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-george-w-bush-would-had-done-a-better-job/574684/112 "2011-03-19T00:11:31Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Plus Iraq has proved to be a victory for the US and democracy. Wait, what? When do you think that was proven? Why would you even think that? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2011, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-george-w-bush-would-had-done-a-better-job/574684/113 "2011-03-19T00:13:37Z")
I don’t think the problem is that there isn’t enough heating oil or coal, it’s that Republicans cater to the wealthy at the expense of the poor and middle class. As for Iraqlife there took a downturn in every way after you conquered it. Waving your little flag doesn’t change that. I’ll mark you down as the sort of pro-lifer who will support invading countries under false pretenses and getting hundreds of thousands killed so long as it makes you feel good and lets you wave your little flag. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2011, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-george-w-bush-would-had-done-a-better-job/574684/114 "2011-03-19T01:58:24Z")
> [@Oldeb](#): > > Wait, what? When do you think that was proven? Why would you even think that? > [@The\_Tooth](#): > > I don’t think the problem is that there isn’t enough heating oil or coal, it’s that Republicans cater to the wealthy at the expense of the poor and middle class. > > As for Iraqlife there took a downturn in every way after you conquered it. Waving your little flag doesn’t change that. I’ll mark you down as the sort of pro-lifer who will support invading countries under false pretenses and getting hundreds of thousands killed so long as it makes you feel good and lets you wave your little flag. Iraq is a democracy currently and no longer under a brutal dictator and tyrant. Violence has ended thanks to George W Bush’s defiance of public opinion and Congress to pull out as soon as things got “bad” and instead to implement a “Surge” strategy. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2011, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-george-w-bush-would-had-done-a-better-job/574684/115 "2011-03-19T02:23:27Z")
Since when has violence ended in Iraq? I know you claim to be 14, but you are demonstrably literate. You can’t possibly be serious. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2011, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-george-w-bush-would-had-done-a-better-job/574684/116 "2011-03-19T02:30:06Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > Since when has violence ended in Iraq? I know you claim to be 14, but you are demonstrably literate. You can’t possibly be serious. Alright, violence has not “ended” in the sense that there is no murder, attack, or shooting in Iraq, but it is a manageable state now, and no longer in borderline civil war conditions. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2011, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-george-w-bush-would-had-done-a-better-job/574684/117 "2011-03-19T02:39:24Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Alright, violence has not “ended” in the sense that there is no murder, attack, or shooting in Iraq, but it is a manageable state now, and no longer in borderline civil war conditions. Even if this were true, which it isn’t, there is no way it was worth the cost in lives or treasure. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2011, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-george-w-bush-would-had-done-a-better-job/574684/118 "2011-03-19T02:41:45Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > Even if this were true, which it isn’t, Erhm…why not? That’s just denying reality-actually even worse than Young Earth Creationism or geocentricity. > [@](#): > > there is no way it was worth the cost in lives or treasure. That may be debatable-but intelligence reports can be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2011, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-george-w-bush-would-had-done-a-better-job/574684/119 "2011-03-19T03:01:58Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Erhm…why not? That’s just denying reality-actually even worse than Young Earth Creationism or geocentricity. > That may be debatable-but intelligence reports can be wrong. So can you. And so can I, but in this case, I’m not. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2011, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-george-w-bush-would-had-done-a-better-job/574684/120 "2011-03-19T03:34:59Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > What do you mean Obama did? Clearly James Corden did. Pardon my ignorance, who is James Corden? A Bing search shows an actor by that name. Got some kind of explanation or link? Thanks [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-george-w-bush-would-had-done-a-better-job/574684.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-george-w-bush-would-had-done-a-better-job/574684.md?page=7)