# Libya too?! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 16, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595 "2011-02-16T16:37:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/321 "2011-02-23T22:57:41Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > _Her_, if you please, her not him. If anyone is in a position to take that shot, she’s a woman. Ah, yes, Gaddafi’s personal Hot Chick Praetorians. 😃 This is gonna make **such** a movie someday! ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/322 "2011-02-23T23:12:38Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > It will mean a lot more to them if they rip the power from Kaddafi’s cold, dead hands than if someone hands it to them. > > -XT +1 The labor pains of democracy are part of what makes it so dear. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/323 "2011-02-23T23:20:22Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Maybe Israel should intervene. On Ghaddafi’s side. > > You know, to unify and mobilize the opposition. Isn’t that frikking sad? The surest way for israel to have kept Hosni Mubarak in power would have been to support the protesters in Tahrir Square. That well is so thoroughly poisoned that i don’t know how you come back from that. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/324 "2011-02-23T23:22:03Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > No, I’m saying that they’d protest themselves. What, you think that only people you like know how to protest? There are hundreds of thousands of settlers with hundreds of thousands of supporters inside the Green Line, and they are capable of disrupting traffic and seizing government buildings just as well as Palestinians could. And because of the guns, the Israeli government would have a much harder time using harsh measures to suppress them. > > A protest in favor of something you personally consider reprehensible can be just as effective as a protest in favor of something you find admirable. I don’t want to derail this thread but I think moral authority might be relevant in how effective protesting is. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/325 "2011-02-23T23:42:21Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > It seems rather odd to jump out of a perfectly good airplane rather than to fly it to Malta. Perhaps they were suspected of disloyalty and so were not given enough fuel to get that far. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/326 "2011-02-23T23:47:26Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I don’t want to derail this thread but I think moral authority might be relevant in how effective protesting is. Bear in mind that your perception of morailty is not identical to that of the Israeli public. For example, the settlers would be able to claim that they’re being abandoned by the government that gave them the land and swore to protect them - and frankly, they’d be right. But yeah, no more derailing. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/327 "2011-02-24T00:02:30Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I thought it was ‘Tippy Canoe and Tyler too!’. (and I know it’s actually ‘Tippecanoe’, but it sounds better the other way) > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Doesn’t quite work . . . Try something with a tattooed lady. Like [this.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4zRe_wvJw8) "Libya, oh Libya, that . . . encyclopebia “Libya the Queen of them aaaallllll . . ..” Just for a bit of relief in all this grimness. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/328 "2011-02-24T00:08:12Z")
_Libya, oh Libya, oh have you met Libya, Libya the fractured nation…_ ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/329 "2011-02-24T00:23:35Z")
And now the old boy’s in command of the fleet. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/330 "2011-02-24T00:25:49Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > And now the old boy’s in command of the fleet. Near as we can tell from here, the old boy is in command of less every hour. And this seems to include his own senses. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/331 "2011-02-24T03:37:56Z")
[Provisional government formed in East Libya](http://www.npr.org/2011/02/23/134003954/New-Government-Forms-In-Eastern-Libya). [QUOTE=NPR] In eastern Libya, in the city of Bayda, a provisional government was being formed. The new leadership also is holding some Gadhafi loyalists hostage. As the first Western journalists many of the residents of Bayda had ever seen were led into the meeting, the crowd gave a standing ovation — quickly followed by cries of “Freedom, Freedom!” and “Libya, Libya!” \ In eastern Libya, it’s still chaotic. On the streets, heavily armed and masked young men man checkpoints. There are tanks and anti-aircraft guns that have been looted from military bases positioned around towns and cities — and they are all in the hands of the rebel forces. Jibril says that eastern Libya will defend itself, but they want a united country. “We will not divide Libya. We will not accept a division of Libya,” he says. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/332 "2011-02-24T03:59:13Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > _Libya, oh Libya, oh have you met Libya, > Libya the fractured nation…_ _She’s got oil and dates and coffee And a fruitcake named Gaddafi…_ ---
**Author:** ![Bibliovore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Bibliovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bibliovore)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/333 "2011-02-24T10:20:33Z")
There are confirmed reports that in the eastern city of Benghazi, residents have been queuing to be issued with guns looted from the army and police in order to join what they are calling the battle for Tripoli. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/334 "2011-02-24T11:14:28Z")
> [@Bibliovore](#): > > There are confirmed reports that in the eastern city of Benghazi, residents have been queuing to be issued with guns looted from the army and police in order to join what they are calling the battle for Tripoli. This may be exciting, but my experience in Africa I have to say I would be worried what this means for Post Gaddafi. I’ve seen this kind of thing degenerate in other countries… Gaddafi even in death is likely to be a curse on Libya. ---
**Author:** ![Bibliovore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Bibliovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bibliovore)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/335 "2011-02-24T11:26:14Z")
My guess is that after the chaos has died down, after the dust has settled, after the bodies have been buried, the dead mourned and the rubble cleared, the people will start to form their own, new political parties, and Libyans will democratically elect a new leadership. It’ll take a long time for the country to get close to anything resembling normality, but you’ll see free press spring up there overnight, and the people will never again accept corruption in their midst. They want freedom and democracy, and after that butcher is gone and the money actually flows to the people instead of to his pockets and those of his cronies, the country will be utterly changed for the better. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/336 "2011-02-24T11:27:53Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Ah, yes, Gaddafi’s personal Hot Chick Praetorians. 😃 This is gonna make **such** a movie someday! Yeah, a “hot chick” equipped with “hot lead” who’s trained to waste one’s ass before one can blink. I want Nikita to infiltrate them… ---
**Author:** ![Bibliovore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Bibliovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bibliovore)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/337 "2011-02-24T11:40:43Z")
Al-Jazeera has been broadcasting live from Bayda, eastern Libya, covering what it says is a meeting of tribal notables and political figures gathered to oppose Col Gaddafi’s regime, reports the BBC World Service’s Arabic service. They include Col Gaddafi’s former justice minister who recently resigned. The general theme of the gathering is to emphasize Libyan unity, reject talk of competing tribal loyalties, and stress opposition to Col Gaddafi. People frequently break into applause and loud chants of “Tripoli is the capital, Tripoli is the capital” and “Libya, Libya”. The podium is draped in the former Libyan flag (dating back to the days of the Libyan monarchy). ---
**Author:** ![Agnostic\_Pagan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c4cdca/32.png) [@Agnostic\_Pagan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agnostic_Pagan)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/338 "2011-02-24T12:14:44Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > The graffiti behind her read: > “Ben Ali is 1, Hosni Mubarak is 2, al-Qadhdhafi will be 3, if God wills.” Thanks for the translation. Makes the photo jump up about a thousand points on the awesome scale. * * * I have heard the protesters are lining up behind the former justice minister as a transitional leader. Election observers are going to have a busy year. What amazes me most in all these uprisings has been the solidarity among the people. Almost no sectarian/tribal or other partisan violence that was not instigated by government forces. It gives me hope that any partisan politics that come afterward will be resolved mostly in parliaments and not on the streets, Wisconsin-style demonstrations excepted - which still relies on parliamentary solutions, not riots or mob rule. I think even groups like the Muslim Brotherhood will realize that extra-parliamentary actions will no longer be tolerated. They will be welcome to participate in civil society, but no one will be allowed to subvert it. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/339 "2011-02-24T12:29:14Z")
What’s also surprising is the amount of quiet in regards to Jihadi groups. ---
**Author:** ![Bibliovore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Bibliovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bibliovore)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/340 "2011-02-24T13:16:45Z")
I don’t think it’s really all that surprising - the uprising isn’t about religion, it’s genuinely about the people wanting to throw off a regime that has kept them terrified and brutalised for decades. They want real freedom, progress and democracy - they don’t want to replace Gaddaffi with a theocratic regime, so Al Quaida and other fundamentalist “Jihadist” groups will find very little traction there, if not outright hostility. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595.md?page=18)