# Libya too?! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 16, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595 "2011-02-16T16:37:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/401 "2011-02-25T16:52:24Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > I know who my money would be on to quit first. Yeah, say what you will about Gaddafi, he’s obviously no quitter. Most tyrants would have bolted for Switzerland about a week before they decided to freeze his assets. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/402 "2011-02-25T17:02:52Z")
> [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > That would be dark comedy: A political debate series between Sarah Palin and Gadhafi. I think I’d rather watch the MST3K version of _Manos_ a second time. What’s the difference between Sarah Palin and Gadhafi? One wears garish costumes paid for using slush funds, and the other is a tinpot dictator. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/403 "2011-02-25T17:16:38Z")
I’m flashing on the mass uprising at the end of [_Zorro: The Gay Blade:_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zorro:_The_Gay_Blade_%281981_film%29) ESTEBAN: **Yaaaarrrggghhh!** One! Last! Command! Arrest . . . **everybody!** [pause] [soldiers about-face, train muskets on Esteban] ESTEBAN: At least I know **you** will never desert me, my darling! FLORINDA: Well, I’m glad you’re finally developing a sense of humor, Esteban! See you around . . . ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/404 "2011-02-25T17:51:26Z")
Two things I just heard : -Kadhaffi announced that armories and ammunition stockpiles not under his control have been bombed. -More importantly, according to some testimonies the battle for Tripoli would have begun. Oh! and a ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/405 "2011-02-25T18:01:05Z")
Oh! and a thought for Mahdi Mohamed Zayou, who managed to make a vital breach in Benghazi’ military compound by crashing his burning car in the defences (and died in the process). From what I read during the last days, it seems that the insurgents didn’t have much in the way of military support (I had previously assumed that defecting militaries had been the key factor in this success), and that apparently it’s barely armed regular people who did most of the job in the east. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/406 "2011-02-25T18:04:11Z")
Mercenaries hiding in ambulances, shooting people. Tripoli contested. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/407 "2011-02-25T18:09:16Z")
Money and guns against the people. It can not end well. If a leader sees his people as expendable, while he has the means to kill them, it can only get uglier and uglier. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/408 "2011-02-25T18:12:02Z")
This could be really bad. The UN Human Rights Council is meeting in Geneva to discuss a resolution that might just suspend Libya from the council! I mean, it’s getting grim now… -XT ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/409 "2011-02-25T18:26:54Z")
Colonel Moammar Gaddafi Is so certifiably daffy, So sick and so thick, They can kick, but he’ll stick To his throne like an infant to taffy! ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/410 "2011-02-25T19:05:32Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Thanks, Ka-Daffy. Now I have this mental image of Queen Elizabeth going on air, pounding the podium, ordering the Royal Air Force to bomb Manchester. You might not appreciate [this Photoshop](http://blogs.aljazeera.net/sites/default/files/imagecache/FeaturedImagePost/images/Gaddafiqueen.jpg), then. (Courtesy of Al Jazeera, from their live blog [here](http://blogs.aljazeera.net/africa/2011/02/24/live-blog-libya-feb-25).) ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/411 "2011-02-25T19:07:31Z")
> **[13 killed in Iraq's 'Day of Rage' protests](https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/24/AR2011022403117.html)** > > BAGHDAD - At least 13 people were killed in Iraq on Friday as tens of thousands defied an official curfew to join a nationwide "Day of Rage," echoing protests that have roiled the Middle East and North Africa since January. I have not seen it on the news but rioting in the streets of Baghdad is happening. Iraq is not the peaceful solution many figured. The people are protesting corruption and poor governance. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/412 "2011-02-25T21:19:06Z")
[Gaddafi loyalists shoot at crowd of demonstrators in Tripoli.](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/af_libya) ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/413 "2011-02-25T22:19:18Z")
> [@straight\_man](#): > > You might not appreciate [this Photoshop](http://blogs.aljazeera.net/sites/default/files/imagecache/FeaturedImagePost/images/Gaddafiqueen.jpg), then. > > (Courtesy of Al Jazeera, from their live blog [here](http://blogs.aljazeera.net/africa/2011/02/24/live-blog-libya-feb-25).) Any translation of the Arabic? I didn’t see anything at the original link. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/414 "2011-02-25T22:25:40Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] I have not seen it on the news but rioting in the streets of Baghdad is happening. Iraq is not the peaceful solution many figured. The people are protesting corruption and poor governance. [/QUOTE] I don’t know who around here thought that Iraq was a ‘peaceful solution’, or peaceful in any stretch of that term, but it doesn’t surprise me that they are protesting. And if the Iraqi government is so butt stupid as to turn what started out as peaceful protests into a new full on civil war, then as long as they don’t drag us back into it I’d say they will get what they deserve, which is hopefully the same things that are in Kaddafi’s immediate future. The only real down side, again assuming we don’t get re-embroiled in the fighting, is that this is going to totally crush oil futures, driving the price to skyrocket levels. It’s going to be bad enough with Libya…if Iraq goes up in flames it’s going to be at least twice as bad, if not worse. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/415 "2011-02-25T23:33:39Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > > [@straight\_man](#): > > > > > > You might not appreciate [this Photoshop](http://blogs.aljazeera.net/sites/default/files/imagecache/FeaturedImagePost/images/Gaddafiqueen.jpg), then. > > > > > > (Courtesy of Al Jazeera, from their live blog [here](http://blogs.aljazeera.net/africa/2011/02/24/live-blog-libya-feb-25).) > > Any translation of the Arabic? I didn’t see anything at the original link. It’s a quotation from a book by al-Qadhdhafi himself. Perhaps intended as an ironic twist, given the context. “The machinery of government is the first political problem that human societies confronted.” –first line of _The Green Book_ ---
**Author:** ![Agnostic\_Pagan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c4cdca/32.png) [@Agnostic\_Pagan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agnostic_Pagan)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/416 "2011-02-26T04:53:17Z")
Regarding a no-fly zone: Pro: [Over 200 Arab groups call for Libya no-fly zone](http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/02/25/over_200_arab_groups_call_for_libya_no_fly_zone) Con: [The Nation: Against A ‘No-Fly Zone’ In Libya](http://www.npr.org/2011/02/25/134051540/the-nation-against-a-no-fly-zone-in-libya) Further analysis: [Libya no-fly zone call by France fails to get David Cameron’s backing](http://www.npr.org/2011/02/25/134051540/the-nation-against-a-no-fly-zone-in-libya) CNN spoke with a protester in Libya calling for a no-fly zone to prevent Gaddafi from bringing in more mercenaries, and I have seen similar calls on other forums, yet CNN is also reporting that protesters in Benghazi do not want any foreign military intervention. So while I am normally more likely to support the opinions of the Nation and less likely to support those of Sarkozy, not in this case. A no-fly zone would help equalize the forces on the ground, and help the rebels force take Tripoli if it comes down to that. The big stumbling block is getting Russia and China to agree to such an action, or at least not veto it. While I agree that Britain has a strong point that such action could affect the evacuation of foreign nationals, the willingness to protect them at the expense of protecting the Libyan people may not help future relations when the dust settles. Gaddafi is going down. If not today, soon. CNN stated that he only has about 5,000 troops remaining under his control, but the longer he can bring in mercenary reinforcements, the longer this plays out. Though even they may be seeing the writing on the wall (literally in this case), and refuse Gaddafi’s employment, the sooner the supply is shut down the better. I hope that Gaddafi falls this weekend, and this becomes a moot point, but if he is still in power come Monday, I hope the UN/NATO is willing to implement a no-fly zone. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/417 "2011-02-26T05:03:44Z")
I can’t see any good of the US or any Western nation intervening in an Arab or Muslim country’s internal strife. It’ll just fuel people with agendas later on. If the Arab countries or Muslim countries want to do a “no-fly zone,” then I’d be for it. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/418 "2011-02-26T05:29:59Z")
At any rate, [Obama is imposing sanctions.](http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/02/25/obama_declares_national_state_of_emergency_over_libya) ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/419 "2011-02-26T07:55:53Z")
> [@Agnostic\_Pagan](#): > > CNN stated that he only has about 5,000 troops remaining under his control, but the longer he can bring in mercenary reinforcements, the longer this plays out. Though even they may be seeing the writing on the wall (literally in this case), and refuse Gaddafi’s employment, the sooner the supply is shut down the better. Mercenaries by definition ‘do it for the money’, and by this point they will be concerned about whether that will be continuing. Generally they demand (and get) paid in advance for at least a few days. But as those run out, they will want additional pay to stay & fight. And being on the ground there, they must see what is happening, and begin to wonder if they will get paid for additional days (and if they will be able to ever get home to spend it). ---
**Author:** ![Agnostic\_Pagan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c4cdca/32.png) [@Agnostic\_Pagan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agnostic_Pagan)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/420 "2011-02-26T08:03:23Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > (and if they will be able to ever get home to spend it). Exactly, the tide keeps turning, and I doubt any amount of money could entice them if they expect they will not live long enough spend it. A couple transports being dissuaded from entering Libyan airspace would help too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595.md?page=22)