# Libya too?! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 16, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595 "2011-02-16T16:37:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 34
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/661 "2011-03-15T18:56:59Z")
Well, hell, one Flogger should be plenty, if they’ve got the missiles for it. Take those tanks down! ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/662 "2011-03-15T19:23:06Z")
> [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > I’m not criticising Israel here at all, you’re entirely missing the point I’m making. You are not actually making a point, just sniping with one-liners. Stop that, regardless of your motivation. [/Modding] ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/663 "2011-03-15T19:37:39Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > The rebel “air force” involved reportedly consists of one MiG 23 and one helicopter. I wouldn’t be surprised by this, but even if it’s not true and a hell of a lot of Quadaffi’s airforce defected, they still need supplies of jet fuel, munitions, viable runways, etc… That they scored a victory is awesome, but it’s way too premature to think that the rebels can field a functional and viable air force. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/664 "2011-03-15T23:26:30Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > I wouldn’t be surprised by this, but even if it’s not true and a hell of a lot of Quadaffi’s airforce defected, they still need supplies of jet fuel, munitions, viable runways, etc… > That they scored a victory is awesome, but it’s way too premature to think that the rebels can field a functional and viable air force. They still hold the eastern third of the country including the second-largest city; surely there must be both civilian and military airports in their territory, with supplies of jet fuel and munitions. Well, we’ll see. If Gaddafi takes Benghazi, the rebels can’t afford to cave – surrender means death, and Gaddafi is just too hated for things to die down at this point. So what we’re looking at is a protracted guerilla insurgency, in the cities and in the deserts, like occupied Iraq at its worst, only worse because Gaddafi’s regime will stick at no methods whatsoever. But, at least – apart from foreigners mistaken for mercenaries – there should be no ethnic cleansing. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/665 "2011-03-16T00:54:59Z")
Seven more tanks captured. Few more planes. And there was more than one Flogger… because two sortied out to fire on Gadaffi’s base in Sirte. One didn’t make it back, so he continued on to Tripoli… and crashed dead on to Gadaffi’s barracks in Baab Al Aziziyah. Rebel flag raised in Sirte. Report from a hospital in Tripoli that Gadaffi’s sons are in the burn ward. 300 of the Saadi Brigade surrendered to the Rebels. Firjaan tribe in Sirte has joined the rebellion. Awlad Suleiman tribe has as well. Been a busy day for the rebels. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/666 "2011-03-16T02:02:26Z")
Best of luck to them… but the sooner we can set up a no-fly zone, get special forces to instruct them in combat tactics and start importing some anti-tank man-portable weaponry, the better. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/667 "2011-03-16T05:10:52Z")
BBC TV just said four people climbed atop the Libyan Embassy in London. At least some have been arrested, but not before they managed to remove the Libyan flag. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/668 "2011-03-16T15:47:25Z")
[Saif al-Islam Gaddafi boasts they will take Benghazi and crush the rebellion within the next 48 hours.](http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/03/201131614230683317.html) ---
**Author:** ![Dick\_Dastardly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dick\_Dastardly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dick_Dastardly)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/669 "2011-03-16T18:59:42Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > You are not actually making a point, just sniping with one-liners. > > Stop that, regardless of your motivation. > > [/Modding] I’m not sniping at all, I’m asking somebody a legitimate question about why they have two different standards for people under oppression which you misconstrued as “sniping against Israel”. Now you’re basically telling me I’m not allowed to ask legitimate questions. The whole point of this board is to debate things, and if somebody is using one standard to judge one set of people and another standard to judge another set of people then surely I’m allowed to at least ask them whether the same standard should apply to all people? How is that sniping, I’m not attacking anybody or criticising anybody, I’m asking a valid question. How can I not be allowed to ask it on a debate board? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/670 "2011-03-16T19:36:59Z")
[ > [@](#): > > March 16 A day after routing a ragtag army in an eastern town near the rebel capital of Benghazi, forces loyal to Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi launched attacks on the city of Misurata, the last rebel stronghold in western Libya, about 125 miles east of the capital, Tripoli. Government forces fired artillery, bombarding the city of several hundred thousand as tanks moved in preparation for a ground advance. > > […] > > March 15 In Ajdabiya, forces loyal to Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi routed an army of insurgents and would-be revolutionaries holding the last defensive line before the rebel capital of Benghazi. There were no signs of preparations for a vigorous defense in Benghazi itself. As diplomacy faltered over the question of outside intervention, France said there had been no agreement at a meeting of the Group of 8 powers on the contentious issue of enforcing a no-flight zone to ground the loyalist air force. ]([Libya - The New York Times](http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/libya/index.html)) Looks like the rest of the world has done far too little, far too late. Shameful. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/671 "2011-03-16T21:42:14Z")
Gaddafi is probably thanking Allah for the disasters in Japan, which have kept his civil war off the front pages for the last week. ---
**Author:** ![Commissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c68b51/32.png) [@Commissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commissar)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/672 "2011-03-16T21:53:33Z")
> [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > I’m not sniping at all, I’m asking somebody a legitimate question about why they have two different standards for people under oppression which you misconstrued as “sniping against Israel”. Now you’re basically telling me I’m not allowed to ask legitimate questions. The whole point of this board is to debate things, and if somebody is using one standard to judge one set of people and another standard to judge another set of people then surely I’m allowed to at least ask them whether the same standard should apply to all people? How is that sniping, I’m not attacking anybody or criticising anybody, I’m asking a valid question. How can I not be allowed to ask it on a debate board? Actually, I agree with you on this point. I do not believe that it should be impermissible to ask Finn to clarify his wildly contradictory stances on these two issues (Libya and Palestine, respectively). As it stands, his position appears to be, “You may always use force to fight back against your oppressors, unless your oppressors are Jewish, in which case you will take the oppression and you’ll like it.” I don’t see why such a ridiculous and bigoted position should be allowed to stand unchallenged in Great Debates, of all places. > [@FinnAgain](#): > > [URL=“[Libya - The New York Times](http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/libya/index.html)”] > > Looks like the rest of the world has done far too little, far too late. Shameful. No, it looks like the rest of the world has chosen to respect a state’s sovereignty for once, thereby not shaming itself for a change. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/673 "2011-03-16T22:13:44Z")
Even if he does win, he’s gonna have a hard time keepin control, it’s basically a mercenary army occupying a country. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/674 "2011-03-16T23:23:01Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Saif al-Islam Gaddafi boasts they will take Benghazi and crush the rebellion within the next 48 hours.](http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/03/201131614230683317.html) But I thought they took Benghazi. Two or three times! ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/675 "2011-03-16T23:37:45Z")
> [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > I’m not sniping at all, I’m asking somebody a legitimate question about why they have two different standards for people under oppression which you misconstrued as “sniping against Israel”. Now you’re basically telling me I’m not allowed to ask legitimate questions. The whole point of this board is to debate things, and if somebody is using one standard to judge one set of people and another standard to judge another set of people then surely I’m allowed to at least ask them whether the same standard should apply to all people? How is that sniping, I’m not attacking anybody or criticising anybody, I’m asking a valid question. How can I not be allowed to ask it on a debate board? You changed the topic, which is a hijack, and then limited yourself to short comments that demanded answers from a specific poster without demonstrating the context. That looks like sniping. You are free to open a new thread in which you seek to debate the relative merits of the actions of Libyans and Palestinians. You are free to open a separate thread in which you argue that any specific poster’s support for or opposition to one group and not the other violates some set of standards that you wish to assert. However, that discussion is not part of this thread and repeatedly demanding that another poster answer a rather vaguely asserted question is, indeed, sniping, particularly when you, yourself, admit that the purpose of your question is to challenge that poster to defend what you perceive to be separate standards of judgment, not to actually discuss the Libyan situation, _per se_. Take it to a new thread in GD or the Pit, but refrain from continuing that line in this thread. It is off topic and not appropriate. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/676 "2011-03-16T23:40:26Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > Actually, I agree with you on this point. I do not believe that it should be impermissible to ask Finn to clarify his wildly contradictory stances on these two issues (Libya and Palestine, respectively). As it stands, his position appears to be, “You may always use force to fight back against your oppressors, unless your oppressors are Jewish, in which case you will take the oppression and you’ll like it.” I don’t see why such a ridiculous and bigoted position should be allowed to stand unchallenged in Great Debates, of all places. If you want to make this an issue, you, too, may open a separate thread. You are out of line in this thread. (If you continue to use the rhetoric you have employed, here, I would strongly suggest you open the thread in The BBQ Pit, since your statements, here, are not sufficiently civil to be an OP in this forum.) [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/677 "2011-03-17T00:02:11Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Even if he does win, he’s gonna have a hard time keepin control, it’s basically a mercenary army occupying a country. It will, more likely than not, degenerate into a guerrilla insurgency somewhere down the line, but perhaps not right away. The brutality that Quadaffi has used to protect his rule has crushed the morale of many pockets, and his threats about going ‘house to house’ may not be idle boasts. It seems that the rest of the world had a brief chance to intervene and it may be over for now. Hopefully I’m wrong, but it doesn’t look like it. If we have any sense, we’ll manage to assassinate Quadafii and his inner circle and let the people develop their own form of government unrestrained by a tyrant. But I’m afraid not. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/678 "2011-03-17T00:25:57Z")
[UNSG Ban Ki-Moon calls for a ceasefire.](http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/03/201131614230683317.html) “Dear Col. Gaddafi: Please quit while you’re winning and give the rebels time to regroup. If you do not, the international community will disapprove.” Gaddafi guakes! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/679 "2011-03-17T00:29:40Z")
I wonder if there’s any way the U.S. could invoke the Noriega precedent: Indict Gaddafi for some crime in U.S. jurisdiction and send in a military force to arrest him. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/680 "2011-03-17T00:30:15Z")
If he doesn’t comply, the UN may even send him a sternly worded letter. Now, about assassinating Quadafii… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595.md?page=33) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595.md?page=35)