# Libya too?! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 16, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595 "2011-02-16T16:37:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![mutantmoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a87d85/32.png) [@mutantmoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mutantmoose)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2011, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/61 "2011-02-20T21:25:23Z")
Well, al Jazeera reporting that one of the biggest tribes (the Wafala) has withdrawn support for Gaddafi and joined anti government protests but on the other hand I think the bulk of the army (and all the ammo) is in Tripoli. So even if the eastern areas did attempt an uprising they may not succeed if the Tripoli part of the army maintains support for Gaddafi. Also on al Jazeera: > [@](#): > > Libyan envoy to Arab League quits and ‘joins revolution’ according to Al Jazeera Arabic. It is reported that he has resigned in protests in what he calls a massacre against the Libyan people ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2011, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/62 "2011-02-20T21:28:15Z")
Go Libya! ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2011, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/63 "2011-02-20T21:31:52Z")
I’d love to see Gaddafis head on a pike, let’s hope in the aftermath Libyans have a truely democratic government. I think it’s amazing, it would be 3 dictatorships successively toppled in the space of a few months. Next on the hit list I hope is Iran. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2011, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/64 "2011-02-20T21:33:15Z")
How popular is Gaddafi in the western half of the country? ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2011, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/65 "2011-02-20T22:28:45Z")
The Libyan Ambassador (or at least a senior diplomat) in China just resigned live on Al-Jazeera. Rats deserting sinking ship - the regime is finished. These things have a momentum, what’s the alternative now for the protesters, either they keep going, or give up, and wait for the door to be kicked in in the early hours of the morning in a few weeks time. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/66 "2011-02-21T00:30:46Z")
One of the sons has just given a rambling statement on state TV. Ummm. These cunts are lucky if all that happens to them is hanging from a lamp post. ---
**Author:** ![Agnostic\_Pagan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c4cdca/32.png) [@Agnostic\_Pagan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agnostic_Pagan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/67 "2011-02-21T01:02:52Z")
> [@wmfellows](#): > > Civil war… Bloody hell that could be really very bad. Posted [this](http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb6511/is_4_44/ai_n28948866/) in thread about the likelihood of further regime changes, but is more relevant here. I remember reading about the previous coup attempts. I think Gaddafi has had his hands full dealing with the other tribes. If he loses control of the cities, he’s gone, and so may be Libya proper. This also explains where protestors are getting tanks. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/68 "2011-02-21T01:32:29Z")
I guess it’s about time to start asking: What future would the Libyan people choose, if they could? E.g., how strong is Islamism there? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/69 "2011-02-21T04:08:22Z")
Confirmed: [The protesters, or I guess we have to call them rebels now, hold Benghazi.](http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/02/20/2077061/libyan-city-falls-to-gadhafis.html) > [@](#): > > CAIRO, Egypt – Libya’s second largest city, Benghazi, fell Sunday after a crack army unit defected to the opposition and clashes spread to the capital, Tripoli, as an uprising against Moammar Gadhafi appeared to threaten the Middle East’s longest ruling dictator’s 42-year grip on power, residents and news reports said. > > Gadhafi’s youngest son, Saif Gadhafi, seemed to acknowledge in a rambling speech on state-run television that Benghazi and the nearby eastern city of Baida were no longer under government control. > > “At this moment in time, tanks are driven about by civilians. In Baida, you have machine guns right in the middle of the city. Many arms have been stolen,” said Saif Gadhafi, who called the insurrection “a plot against Libya.” > > He appealed for calm, promising to institute democratic reforms. But in a warning suggesting that the regime was digging in for a bloody fight for survival, he said that unless its proposals are accepted, “be prepared for civil war.” Would that be a long war or a short one? Makes all the difference. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/70 "2011-02-21T07:03:25Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > I’d love to see Gaddafis head on a pike, let’s hope in the aftermath Libyans have a truely democratic government. > > I think it’s amazing, it would be 3 dictatorships successively toppled in the space of a few months. > > Next on the hit list I hope is Iran. While I agree with you, I wonder what the dictatorships will be replace by. Another dictator? More of the same? Or something worse? ---
**Author:** ![eenerms](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cdc98d/32.png) [@eenerms](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eenerms)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/71 "2011-02-21T08:39:18Z")
An aside: I am so happy that my husband got out of Libya last week and is not going back!! ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/72 "2011-02-21T09:05:29Z")
> [@mutantmoose](#): > > Well, al Jazeera reporting that one of the biggest tribes (the Wafala) has withdrawn support for Gaddafi and joined anti government protests but on the other hand I think the bulk of the army (and all the ammo) is in Tripoli. So even if the eastern areas did attempt an uprising they may not succeed if the Tripoli part of the army maintains support for Gaddafi. [al Jazeera](http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/02/201122131439291589.html) is reporting that the fighting has spread to Tripoli. > [@](#): > > Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi will fight a popular revolt to “the last man standing,” one of his sons said on Monday as people in the capital joined protests for the first time after days of violent unrest in the eastern city of Benghazi. > > Anti-government protesters rallied in Tripoli’s streets, tribal leaders spoke out against Gaddafi, and army units defected to the opposition as oil exporter Libya endured one of the bloodiest revolts to convulse the Arab world. > > \ > > While Gaddafi attempted to put down protests centred in the eastern city of Benghazi against his four-decade rule, Al Jazeera began receiving eyewitness reports of “disturbances” in the capital Tripoli early on Monday. > > There were reports of clashes between anti-government protesters and Gaddafi supporters around the Green Square. > > “We are in Tripoli, there are chants [directed at Gaddafi]: 'Where are you? Where are you? Come out if you’re a man,” a protester told Al Jazeera on the phone. > > A resident told the Reuters news agency that he could hear gunshots in the streets and crowds of people. > > “We’re inside the house and the lights are out. There are gunshots in the street,” the resident said by phone. “That’s what I hear, gunshots and people. I can’t go outside.” > > An expatriate worker living in the Libyan capital told Reuters: “Some anti-government demonstrators are gathering in the residential complexes. The police are dispersing them. I can also see burning cars.” > > There were also reports of protesters heading to Gaddafi’s compound in the city of Al-Zawia near Tripoli, with the intention of burning the building down. Hopefully the regime will collapse without a full fledged civil war - and without one afterwards. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/73 "2011-02-21T11:54:58Z")
Now they are apparently burning down the [parliament building](http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/02/21/3144870.htm). > [@](#): > > Anti-government protesters in Libya have set fire to a government building in the capital Tripoli, as the civil unrest continues to spread through the country’s streets. > > \ > > The burning building is where the General People’s Congress, or parliament, meets when it is in session in Tripoli. > > A number of witnesses said protesters had also torched other public buildings in the capital overnight, including government offices and police stations. > > The state broadcast offices had also been ransacked. ---
**Author:** ![erez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@erez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erez)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/74 "2011-02-21T12:04:04Z")
> [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > If they overthrow Gaddafi where’s he going to go? The west wouldn’t take him, the Saudis and the Gulf emirates hate him. He’d have to bung some African despot a load of dough. Wmfellows, any idea who might take Gaddafi for a pile of cash? Chavez likes him. > [@](#): > > Venezuela’s self-styled socialist leader expressed “delight” at Mr Gaddafi’s first ever visit to South America, referring to him as “one of the great leaders of this century”, and presenting him with a replica of a sword of South American independence hero Simon Bolivar. > **[Chávez and Gaddafi urge redefining of ‘terrorism’](https://www.ft.com/content/5a429ac8-ad0e-11de-9caf-00144feabdc0)** ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/75 "2011-02-21T14:46:46Z")
I’m getting reports about an hour before Al-Jazeera, so I didn’t have a cite at the time. But I was getting multiple reports about multiple protestor-driven tanks. Er, and yeah, yesterday’s hot rumor was, circa his son’s speech, that Kadaffi had left for Bolivia or Venezuela already. No evidence on it, though. Still catching up, slept in today. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/76 "2011-02-21T14:53:02Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > One of the sons has just given a rambling statement on state TV. Ummm. These cunts are lucky if all that happens to them is hanging from a lamp post. A rambling statement that reeked of ego and paternalism. He also said that there are lots of weapons in Libya which makes the potential clashes that much worse. He talked of a civil war. That would suggest he is not giving up power. Libya is an oil exporter. That changes a lot. Outside countries will be directly affected. It is in their interest to get involved to keep the supply flowing. ---
**Author:** ![Agnostic\_Pagan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c4cdca/32.png) [@Agnostic\_Pagan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agnostic_Pagan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/77 "2011-02-21T14:57:13Z")
> [@erez](#): > > Chavez likes him. > > [Subscribe to read](http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5a429ac8-ad0e-11de-9caf-00144feabdc0.html) I think Chavez is the only world leader who read Gaddafi’s [Green Book](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Green_Book) and took it seriously. And he considers them soul brothers in both having successfully resisted American aggression against them. An aside: I like where Chavez’s heart is - I truly believe he wants the best for the Venezuelan people, but his head is filled with similar megalomania that he is the only one that can determine what is best and he has visions of being Gaddafi’s equivalent for Latin America - ‘the [permanent] Leader of the Revolution.’ With ‘friends’ like these, socialists like me don’t need enemies. Conservatives get stuck with Ann Coulter and Glenn Beck. We get stuck with Gaddafi and Chavez. happy, happy, joy, joy!! [QUOTE=eenerms] An aside: I am so happy that my husband got out of Libya last week and is not going back!! [/QUOTE] I am happy for you too. I do not want to imagine what you would be going through if he was still there. Does he have an opinion of how this will play out? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/78 "2011-02-21T15:33:57Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > He also said that there are lots of weapons in Libya which makes the potential clashes that much worse. He’s right. Because now **both sides have them.** ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/79 "2011-02-21T16:28:22Z")
It has been announced that two Libyan choppers and two military aircrafts have landed in Malta. No more informations at the moment. It could be defectors or officials fleeing. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/80 "2011-02-21T16:31:13Z")
> [@Agnostic\_Pagan](#): > > Posted [this](http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb6511/is_4_44/ai_n28948866/) in thread about the likelihood of further regime changes, but is more relevant here. . Interesting link. Thanks. By the way, I wonder why _civilians_ are driving tanks around. Any sane military leader (or even private, for that matter) siding with the protestors would have kept the tanks crewed with soldiers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595.md?page=5)