# Libya too?! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 16, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595 "2011-02-16T16:37:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 47
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/921 "2011-03-23T18:09:12Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > It appears that the US has now launched over 160 cruise missiles against Libya; each one of them costs at least $1,000,000. . I must agree that’s a bit much. Some of those should probably have been saved for some useful purpose, like striking Syria too. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/922 "2011-03-23T21:21:55Z")
Still waiting on that cite from you, Commissar, regarding your claim about America almost always claiming mechanical failure. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/923 "2011-03-23T22:39:56Z")
Sorry, here’s a set of quotes to show what I’m talking about. AP: [ > [@](#): > > Zack Cooper, an analyst with the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, said Wednesday that […] the weekly expense was likely $30 million to $100 million ]([http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US\_US\_LIBYA\_COSTS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-03-23-03-16-14](http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_US_LIBYA_COSTS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-03-23-03-16-14)) [ToI: > [@](#): > > The Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, in an analysis this month, estimated that the Libyan no-fly zone could cost $100 million to $300 million per week. ]([http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/US-role-in-Libya-costs-millions-and-could-rise/articleshow/7769706.cms](http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/US-role-in-Libya-costs-millions-and-could-rise/articleshow/7769706.cms)) Now, either one paper is wildly wrong, the CSBA is simply pulling numbers out of their ass, the CSBA gave one estimate and then revised it but the ToI couldn’t be bothered to check back for an updated figure. or the ToI is again writing nonsense about how expensive it is for America to do things. ---
**Author:** ![Commissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c68b51/32.png) [@Commissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commissar)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/924 "2011-03-23T22:57:49Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Now, either one paper is wildly wrong, the CSBA is simply pulling numbers out of their ass, the CSBA gave one estimate and then revised it but the ToI couldn’t be bothered to check back for an updated figure. or the ToI is again writing nonsense about how expensive it is for America to do things. Since you are having difficulty understanding the concept of the Times of India reporting numbers that it did not itself calculate, I offer you the exact same numbers reported by what I can only assume to be your favorite news source: [http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2011/03/18/libya-cost-no-fly-zone?cmpid=cmty\_twitter\_Gigya\_Libya%3A\_The\_Cost\_of\_a\_No-Fly\_Zone#ixzz1H8Iwwu2y](http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2011/03/18/libya-cost-no-fly-zone?cmpid=cmty_twitter_Gigya_Libya%3A_The_Cost_of_a_No-Fly_Zone#ixzz1H8Iwwu2y) > [@Monty](#): > > Still waiting on that cite from you, Commissar, regarding your claim about America almost always claiming mechanical failure. Once again, you demonstrate your ignorance of recent events. You can begin your education here: > **[List of aviation shootdowns and accidents during the Iraq War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aviation_shootdowns_and_accidents_during_the_Iraq_War#cite_note-17)** > > This list of aviation shootdowns and accidents during the Iraq War includes incidents with Coalition and civilian aircraft during the Iraq War. > According to media reports, 129 helicopters and 24 fixed-wing aircraft were lost in Iraq between the 2003 invasion and February 2009. Of these incidents, 46 have been attributed to hostile fire, such as anti-aircraft artillery and surface-to-air missiles. In March 2007, Brig. Gen. Stephen Mundt said that 130 helicopters had been lost in both Iraq and ... “129 helicopters and 24 fixed-wing aircraft have been reported by media to be lost in Iraq since the 2003 invasion till February 2009. 46 of these incidents have been attributed to hostile fire such as anti-aircraft artillery and surface-to-air missiles.” I assume you can do the math on this one. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/925 "2011-03-23T23:51:29Z")
And, yet again, you display your use of weaseling. You asserted that the US almost always attributes combat losses to mechanical failure in war zones. Note the plurals there. I assume you, being the be-all and end-all of all linguistic knowledge that you have pretended to be, are familiar with the concept. The US has been involved in combat aviation in far more than one conflict. So, yet again, put up or shut up. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/926 "2011-03-24T00:13:05Z")
RAF officer: [The Libyan air force “no longer exists.”](http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/03/201132316258646677.html=) Coalition airstrikes are also targeting Gaddafi ground troops threatening rebel-held cities. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/927 "2011-03-24T00:43:42Z")
Readers should, of course, be aware that now Commissar has attempted to show that the Times of India proceeded with due diligence and journalistic integrity by showing that Fox News made the same mistake. Yes, seriously. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/928 "2011-03-24T01:21:16Z")
The UN resolution is limited to “protecting civilians” . . . Problem is, a dictator can’t put down a popular rebellion like this **without** threatening civilians. So . . . ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/929 "2011-03-24T01:33:15Z")
That’s not a bug, that’s a feature. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/930 "2011-03-24T02:05:45Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > It appears that the US has now launched over 160 cruise missiles against Libya; each one of them costs at least $1,000,000. Furthermore, it has been estimated that the weekly cost of the no-fly zone will be upwards of $300,000,000. so. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/931 "2011-03-24T02:12:01Z")
Commissar is just concerned with the capitalistic health of the United States. I think that the phrase is “I hope that the US will remain economically powerful, by the Power of [del]Grayskull[/del] Lenin!!!” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/932 "2011-03-24T02:15:32Z")
CNN reports Gaddafi has started distributing assault rifles to all civilians in loyal areas. Rolling for double or nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/933 "2011-03-24T03:24:17Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > CNN reports Gaddafi has started distributing assault rifles to all civilians in loyal areas. > > Rolling for double or nothing. HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa. He’s arming the people who will overthrow him. “Why YES, I’m his biggest supporter, do you have any more ammunition?” ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/934 "2011-03-24T03:39:45Z")
either the people running his tanks are the bravest people ever or they aren’t allowed to watch the news. ---
**Author:** ![Commissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c68b51/32.png) [@Commissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commissar)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/935 "2011-03-24T05:12:23Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > And, yet again, you display your use of weaseling. You asserted that the US almost always attributes combat losses to mechanical failure in war zones. Note the plurals there. I assume you, being the be-all and end-all of all linguistic knowledge that you have pretended to be, are familiar with the concept. The US has been involved in combat aviation in far more than one conflict. > > So, yet again, put up or shut up. Yes, my friend, there is quite a lot of “weaseling” going on here, but not on my end. This is precisely why I typically choose not to play your disingenuous little games. You pop into random threads, shrilly demand cites for statements that have little or no relevance to the topic at hand, and then dismiss all offered cites with the wave of a hand. I have offered you a link to get you started, and yet you have not indicated any interest in it. You don’t seem to care about fighting ignorance, so there is little point in further discourse. Incidentally, in the interest of fighting fire with fire, please provide a cite for your outrageous assertion that I have “pretended” to be “the be-all and end-all of all linguistic knowledge.” > [@FinnAgain](#): > > Readers should, of course, be aware that now Commissar has attempted to show that the Times of India proceeded with due diligence and journalistic integrity by showing that Fox News made the same mistake. > > Yes, seriously. Since our posts don’t disappear, and since most people here are literate, I find that your misrepresentations of my words will find much purchase here. You have spent several posts slandering the Times of India by accusing it of creating facts out of whole cloth. I have demonstrated that, miraculously, Fox News happens to have apparently made the same exact facts up. I think most readers will understand how this is relevant and why it weakens your argument. > [@Magiver](#): > > so. So the US Forest Service called. They regret to inform you that, to the best of their knowledge, money still doesn’t grow on trees. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/936 "2011-03-24T05:36:48Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > So the US Forest Service called. They regret to inform you that, to the best of their knowledge, money still doesn’t grow on trees. I think I saw some postings for tank drivers on [Gaddafi.com](http://Gaddafi.com). Times a wastin for the ideologically enabled. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/937 "2011-03-24T08:32:40Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > Yes, my friend, You are not my friend. > [@](#): > > You pop into random threads, shrilly demand cites for statements that have little or no relevance to the topic at hand, and then dismiss all offered cites with the wave of a hand. This is false. > [@](#): > > I have offered you a link to get you started, and yet you have not indicated any interest in it. I am very interested in the sources (note the plural) for your assertions that the US almost always attributes something to one thing in a war zone. You provided one link for one conflict. What you’re now doing, essentially, is telling the reader to do your work for you. That’s really not the way it’s been done on this site. > [@](#): > > You don’t seem to care about fighting ignorance, so there is little point in further discourse. I’m very interested in fighting ignorance. That is why I am challenging you. **tomndebb** is also very interested in fighting ignorance. That, also, is why he’s been challenging you. A number of other posters here are very interested in fighting ignorance and, because of that interest, have been challenging you. > [@](#): > > Since our posts don’t disappear, and since most people here are literate, I find that your misrepresentations of my words will find much purchase here. More comedy from you. Do I need to link–again–to your post where you pretended something that has one and only one possible meaning is ambiguous? ---
**Author:** ![Commissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c68b51/32.png) [@Commissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commissar)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/938 "2011-03-24T09:05:56Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > You are not my friend. I disagree. In my times, I would call you my “tovatich.” Roughly translated, this would mean “my friend.” Contrary to Yankee propaganda, this term is not translated as “comrade.”. I am very interested in the sources (note the plural) for your assertions that the US almost always attributes something to one thing in a war zone. You provided one link for one conflict. What you’re now doing, essentially, is telling the reader to do your work for you. That’s really not the way it’s been done on this site. > [@](#): > > I’m very interested in fighting ignorance. That is why I am challenging you. **tomndebb** is also very interested in fighting ignorance. That, also, is why he’s been challenging you. A number of other posters here are very interested in fighting ignorance and, because of that interest, have been challenging you. > More comedy from you. Do I need to link–again–to your post where you pretended something that has one and only one possible meaning is ambiguous? Once again, I call your bluff. I request a cite for the following: “I assume you, being the be-all and end-all of all linguistic knowledge that you have pretended to be…” I demand to know where, exactly, I claimed to be the person that you make me out to be. Given the fact that you pretend to be an English teacher and a linguist master, this should be no problem for you. I eagerly await further elucidation, oh great leader. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/939 "2011-03-24T14:05:42Z")
BBC is reporting a French fighter just jet shot down a Libyan fighter violating the no-fly zone. I think the French are my new heroes. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/940 "2011-03-24T14:09:11Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > RAF officer: [The Libyan air force “no longer exists.”](http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/03/201132316258646677.html=) Coalition airstrikes are also targeting Gaddafi ground troops threatening rebel-held cities. Nevertheless, [Gaddafi ground troops are still threatening rebel-held cities.](http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/03/20113242425700917.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595.md?page=46) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595.md?page=48)