# Libya too?! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 16, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595 "2011-02-16T16:37:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 55
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2011, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1081 "2011-04-01T19:27:41Z")
[quote=“E-Sabbath, post:1080, topic:571595”] [quote] ``` The BBC's Nick Springate reports from Libya's eastern town of Brega that for the first time, rag-tag rebel forces have been bolstered by a number of well-armed, seemingly well-trained soldiers in full military attire. It's not clear where they've come from, our correspondent says, but their very presence has boosted morale on the front line. " ``` … Our correspondent says the rebels are now starting a major onslaught on Brega, having given a boisterous reception to two key rebel figures - the former interior minister and the former head of the armed forces. Brega’s significance is as one of the major oil towns on the route to Col Gaddafi’s birthplace of Sirte, our correspondent adds. > [@](#): > > Well, this is interestin. Egyptians, perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2011, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1082 "2011-04-01T20:57:21Z")
Nope. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2011, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1083 "2011-04-01T21:21:35Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Nope. Could you expand on this, **E-Sabbath**? I can’t find any mention outside the BBC report. Are you basing the “nope” on guesswork, or on a bit of knowledge you can share with us? ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2011, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1084 "2011-04-01T21:30:11Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > Could you expand on this, **E-Sabbath**? I can’t find any mention outside the BBC report. Are you basing the “nope” on guesswork, or on a bit of knowledge you can share with us? Maybe those soldiers don’t Walk like an Egyptian? ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2011, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1085 "2011-04-01T21:34:38Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Maybe those soldiers don’t Walk like an Egyptian? Maybe they’re Libyan regular army, defected. This seems likely to me, although I’ve been expecting the Egyptians to start “walking” in more boldly if the rebels continued to hold the eastern part of the country. Hoping for more details… ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2011, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1086 "2011-04-01T22:54:44Z")
If they took all the defecting privates from the Libyan Armed Forces, and made them noncoms in the Libyan People’s Army for the duration, and let the civilian volunteers be the privates under them, would that work, I wonder? Are there enough to go around? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1087 "2011-04-02T00:05:42Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > If they took all the defecting privates from the Libyan Armed Forces, and made them noncoms in the Libyan People’s Army for the duration, and let the civilian volunteers be the privates under them, would that work, I wonder? Who’s going to be running strategy and logistics? Other than the CIA, I mean. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1088 "2011-04-02T01:15:19Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Who’s going to be running strategy and logistics? Other than the CIA, I mean. That would seem enough. …And when one of them gets killed… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1089 "2011-04-02T01:50:06Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Who’s going to be running strategy and logistics? Other than the CIA, I mean. The defecting officers and noncoms from the Libyan Armed Forces. Thought that was implied. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1090 "2011-04-02T01:59:14Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Rebels offer ceasefire if Gaddafi halts attacks on rebel-held cities.](http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/04/201141134110527219.html) > > “So [_writhes on the ground_ _spits out tooth_], ya had enough?!” Aaaannnndd [Gaddafi rejects the offer.](http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/04/201141134110527219.html) > [@](#): > > A Libyan government spokesman has termed the conditions set by the opposition for a ceasefire “mad”, and asserted that troops loyal to Muammar Gaddafi, the Libyan leader, will remain stationed where they are. > > “They are asking us to withdraw from our own cities. … If this is not mad then I don’t know what this is. We will not leave our cities,” said Mussa Ibrahim, the government spokesman, on Friday. > > Fighting raged on Friday near the key oil town of Brega, in the country’s east, and the towns of Misurata and Az Zintan in the west. > > Earlier, the opposition had said it would agree to a ceasefire as long as Gaddafi pulled his military out of opposition-held cities and allowed peaceful protests against his government. Dude, think twice here. Yes, you’re winning . . . but the whole world is against you. Even Tripoli is full of people who want you dead. You can only enforce order through the military, and your military is crap. The rebellion is not going away. How long do you think you can run a viable state under these conditions? How is the economy going to work? And if it doesn’t, how long can you pay your troops? Your assets abroad are frozen. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1091 "2011-04-02T02:08:36Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The defecting officers and noncoms from the Libyan Armed Forces. Thought that was implied. Shouldn’t we already be seeing those effects then? Where is the effect of the experienced military leadership from the defectors showing up in the rebel army? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1092 "2011-04-02T02:13:37Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Dude, think twice here. Yes, you’re winning . . . Yes, you’re winning, but, “Surrender, Dorothy!” ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1093 "2011-04-02T02:26:50Z")
> [@](#): > > Abdul-Jalil said the regime must withdraw its forces and lift all sieges. He stressed the ultimate goal was still to oust Gaddafi. > > “Our aim is to liberate and have sovereignty over all of Libya with its capital in Tripoli,” he said. You quit kicking their ass so **WE** can kick their ass! ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1094 "2011-04-02T02:34:04Z")
From the Guardian Live Blog: > [@](#): > > ``` > In an attempt to finally bring order to its chaotic military campaign, the rebel leadership introduced the first of newly trained troops toward Brega, which was seized by the government earlier this week, and hauled up rocket launchers. > > They were also seen to have new radio and other communications equipment which the leadership was appealing to foreign governments to provide just a few days ago. > > The newly uniformed soldiers included officers who, the rebels said, would establish firm lines of command in an attempt to end the shambolic confrontations in which the revolutionaries have only been able to move forward under the cover of western air strikes and have been unable to hold ground because they lack plans for defence. > > The rebels began screening which of the ill-disciplined civilian volunteer fighters would be permitted to go toward the front line in order to stop the scenes of large numbers of them charging forward without order and then retreating en masse under fire. > > ``` Latest Rumors: > [@](#): > > I don’t know what’s going on in Tripoli but I’m inundated with reports of shots and fighting all over the city on FB > Reports that Colonel Abdelrahman AlSaid defected and IS NOW BESIEGING BAB AL-AZIZIYA Gaddafi’s compound in Tripoli > According to #Libya Alyowm excaped prisoners from #BabAlAziziya shooting in the compound after seizing guards’ weapons > Reports that hundreds (or thousands) of prisoners escaped from Tripoli’s largest prison and stole some weapons too Rumor, rumor, rumor. From Sky News (British Non BBC channel): > [@](#): > > Fairly prolonged period of machine gun fire in Tripoli around 4.30am local. Rumours circulating govt militia exchanged fire with protesters ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1095 "2011-04-02T20:40:40Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > ``` > > The BBC's Nick Springate reports from Libya's eastern town of Brega that for the first time, rag-tag rebel forces have been bolstered by a number of well-armed, seemingly well-trained soldiers in full military attire. It's not clear where they've come from, our correspondent says, but their very presence has boosted morale on the front line. " > > > > ``` > > > > … > > Our correspondent says the rebels are now starting a major onslaught on Brega, having given a boisterous reception to two key rebel figures - the former interior minister and the former head of the armed forces. Brega’s significance is as one of the major oil towns on the route to Col Gaddafi’s birthplace of Sirte, our correspondent adds. > > Well, this is interestin. This might be the explanation: Apparently, [American and Egyptian special forces units have been training Libyan rebels at a secret facility in eastern Libya.](http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/04/201142172443133798.html) No shit. All this is going to make **such** a movie someday! ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1096 "2011-04-02T20:42:41Z")
> **[Libyan Rebels Claim to Retake Key Oil Port Town](https://www.voanews.com/a/libyan-rebels-claim-to-retake-key-oil-port-town-119119789/137436.html)** > > News that Brega had fallen to rebel fighters appear to reverse recent trend by pro-Gadhafi forces > [@](#): > > News that the key oil port town of Brega had fallen to rebel fighters Saturday appeared to reverse the recent trend by pro-Gadhafi forces, which had pushed slowly eastward toward the rebel-held town of Ajdabiya. An interesting bit to me is that the same cities they are fighting over changed hands 6 times among the Germans and the British forces in WWII. Back then the availability of material and the problems with supply lines in the desert meant that armies many times overstretched their advances and counter attracts succeeded many times, I can see this happening again but on a smaller scale. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1097 "2011-04-02T21:23:55Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > [Libyan Rebels Claim to Retake Key Oil Port Town](http://www.voanews.com/english/news/africa/Libyan-Rebels-Claim-to-Retake-Key-Oil-Port-Town-119119789.html) > > An interesting bit to me is that the same cities they are fighting over changed hands 6 times among the Germans and the British forces in WWII. > > Back then the availability of material and the problems with supply lines in the desert meant that armies many times overstretched their advances and counter attracts succeeded many times, I can see this happening again but on a smaller scale. Could it? The forces are now fighting back and forth along an urbanized coastal strip. Seems to me supplies could always be found near to hand. Except for ammunition. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1098 "2011-04-02T21:32:30Z")
I wonder if Libya’s example is going to encourage or discourage dissidents elsewhere in the MENA? You have to really hate your government, to want to risk full-blown civil war as a solution. No matter who wins, your country gets damaged and your fellowcountrymen get killed. ---
**Author:** ![Commissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c68b51/32.png) [@Commissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commissar)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1099 "2011-04-02T21:45:12Z")
The crusaders are certainly keeping busy. After a highly successful sorty that left a handful of Libyan children very much dead, the brave assault dogs of imperialism decided to wrap up by using a rebel convoy for target practice: > **[Libya: Coalition air strike near Brega kills rebels](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12944905)** > > A coalition plane flying over Libya fired on a rebel convoy and killed 13 people, the rebels say. The message to Libyans is clear: “We’re bringing freedom to your doorstep! Unfortunately, you will probably need to die in the process.” ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1100 "2011-04-02T21:52:33Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > The crusaders are certainly keeping busy. After a highly successful sorty that left a handful of Libyan children very much dead, the brave assault dogs of imperialism decided to wrap up by using a rebel convoy for target practice: > > [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12944905](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12944905) > > The message to Libyans is clear: “We’re bringing freedom to your doorstep! Unfortunately, you will probably need to die in the process.” I have been resisting the calls to have you banned as a troll, but this sort of BBQ Pit rant is not helping your case. The next time you post one of these _Pravda_-like screeds, you will be Warned. Stick to a genuine discussion or get out. [/Moderating] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595.md?page=54) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595.md?page=56)