# Libya too?! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 16, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595 "2011-02-16T16:37:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 69
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1361 "2011-05-19T16:12:27Z")
Veracity of that story unknown and denied. Something’s happening in Tripoli. Shooting reported… then ‘celebratory gunfire’ apparently done to mask it up. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1362 "2011-05-20T01:50:56Z")
> [@Bibliovore](#): > > I wonder what that actually means though. 6,000 missiles fired? 6,000 targets destroyed? 6,000 separate missions? I wondered that, too. I finally took it to mean 6000 missiles fired, but it could be one of the others. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1363 "2011-05-20T02:15:08Z")
Breaking news coming now on BBC: Nato has just bombed eight Libyan naval warships. They said something about “a million tons of explosives used.” ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1364 "2011-05-20T03:25:04Z")
Now they’re saying the eight warships were in three ports. It was a coordinated attack. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1365 "2011-05-21T02:34:33Z")
Does that do it for Gaddafi’s naval power, then? Such as it was? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1366 "2011-05-21T02:56:19Z")
[Obama backs draft Senate resolution on U.S. role in Libya.](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0511/55403.html) Trying to comply with the [War Powers Resolution](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Powers_Resolution), apparently. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1367 "2011-05-24T01:04:21Z")
More airstrikes on Tripoli right now. BBC is saying 20 strikes – not sure if that means missiles planes or group sorties – and there are “large columns of smoke coming from the direction of Ka-Daffy’s compound.” ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1368 "2011-05-24T01:22:04Z")
Now they’re saying 20 heavy explosions in 30 minutes, with at least one People’s Guards barracks hit. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1369 "2011-05-27T02:32:39Z")
BBC is reporting that Britain will deploy Apache attack helicopters within days. They’ll be able to strike urban-based targets with precision. ---
**Author:** ![Commissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c68b51/32.png) [@Commissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commissar)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1370 "2011-05-27T07:46:43Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > BBC is reporting that Britain will deploy Apache attack helicopters within days. They’ll be able to strike urban-based targets with precision. Also, here’s hoping that they provide better targets for Libyan air defenses. On another note, now that you’re back in this thread, would you mind responding to my previous question directed to you? I would still very much like to know whether or not you do, in fact, subscribe to the idea that reaching the age of majority automatically makes one a viable target for wanton killing. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1371 "2011-05-27T13:52:45Z")
[Interesting news from the G8 meeting.](http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/05/2011527114252533477.html) > [@](#): > > As the Group of Eight [G8] meeting in France comes to an end, Russia has agreed to mediate Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi’s exit. > > Hours after G8 leaders asked Russia to take a mediation role in Libya on Friday, Sergei Ryabkov, the Russian deputy foreign minister, told reporters that “Gaddafi has forfeited legitimacy” and that Russia is ready “to help him go”. > > Soon after, Mikhail Margelov, Moscow’s special representative on Africa told reporters that his country is ready to negotiate Gaddafi’s departure. > > Margelov explained that Russia is in contact with Gaddafi’s entourage, and that they are willing to negotiate Libyan leader’s fate. > > “We shouldn’t talk to Gaddafi himself but with members of his cabinet, possibly with his sons. And we are making such contacts, so there is a hope for a political resolution,” Margelov told reporters at the G8 summit in northern France. > > When asked to specify who Russia’s main partner would be in such talks, he said, “Can you imagine, if I give you this person’s name and his head were to be cut off the next day? But yes, we do have people in Gaddafi’s camp.” > > Russia has been critical of the NATO-led bombing campaign, but after months of violent and bloody clashes, has agreed that Gaddafi should step aside. Can’t trust them Russians! Eh, **Commissar?** 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Commissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c68b51/32.png) [@Commissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commissar)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1372 "2011-05-27T21:20:01Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Interesting news from the G8 meeting.](http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/05/2011527114252533477.html) > > Can’t trust them Russians! Eh, **Commissar?** 😉 There’s clearly nothing wrong with (a) Nation X making statements regarding Nation Y’s conduct and (b) Nation X wishing to negotiate with Nation Y to change said conduct. Indeed, this is what we call “diplomacy.” I applaud the Russians for approaching this matter in a calm, mature, and non-aggressive manner. Contrast this approach with that of the West, which only ever appears to come in one flavor: “Kill them all!” If Russia is the adult carefully managing issues on the global stage for the benefit of all humanity, then Christendom is a petulant child throwing temper tantrums and wantonly destroying that which others have carefully built up over the years. You can probably tell which approach I favor. This world would be a much fairer, more peaceful, and just place were all nations to follow the Russian/Chinese model of hands-off diplomacy. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2011, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1373 "2011-05-28T01:47:11Z")
I wonder if Russian can trick Gadahffi into leaving and than hand them over to us to hold a mini-Nuremberg for Lockerbie. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2011, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1374 "2011-05-28T09:07:22Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > … > > You can probably tell which approach I favor. This world would be a much fairer, more peaceful, and just place were all nations to follow the Russian/Chinese model of hands-off diplomacy. I should state I edited a lot of your post. The edited part had valid points. However, I just want to narrow in and ask you if believe Russia/China is following their approach becaise its 2011 or if they would follow this hand off approach no matter the year (i.e. releative power)? It’s similar to how Germany acts and how/why they act the way they act (militarily, not ecomically). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1375 "2011-06-01T21:29:03Z")
[Gaddafi’s oil minister defects.](http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/06/201161153521916448.html) > [@](#): > > Libya’s oil minister has confirmed his defection from Muammar Gaddafi’s government, citing the “daily spilling of blood” in the country as reason for his departure. > > Shokri Ghanem, head of the National Oil Corporation, said at a news conference in Rome, Italy on Wednesday that he supported the “Libyan youth fighting for a constitutional state”, but was still undecided about joining the anti-Gaddafi regime rebels. > > “I can’t work in this situation so I have left my country and my job to join the choice made by young Libyans to fight for a democratic country,” he said at the conference organised by the Libyan ambassador who has also defected, according to ANSA, the Italian news agency. > > But Ghanem added that he was not working with the National Transitional Council (NTC) in Benghazi, the main rebel administration in eastern Libya. > > Ghanem is one of the most high-profile and senior Libyan officials to have defected after Moussa Koussa, Gaddafi’s foreign minister who defected in March. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1376 "2011-06-01T23:51:53Z")
Meanwhile, [the UN humanitarian coordinator for Libya says food supplies in Gaddafi-held areas will last only weeks, creating a “time bomb” for the population.](http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/31/us-libya-un-food-idUSTRE74U23W20110531) ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1377 "2011-06-02T03:20:21Z")
BBC said something about 120 soldiers defecting to Italy, including eight officers. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1378 "2011-06-04T02:07:46Z")
Breaking news coming in now on BBC: Nato has just used the Apache attack helicopters for the first time. The raids are being termed “successful.” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1379 "2011-06-04T05:45:50Z")
Hmm. [First time in weeks anything has moved in the West.](http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/06/201163182012680622.html) > [@](#): > > Libyan opposition fighters have made a major advance towards the capital, Tripoli after claiming victory in western Libyan towns against forces loyal to leader Muammar Gaddafi. > > An opposition military leader said on Friday that local fighters won control of four towns in the western Nafusa mountain range, where government forces have besieged and randomly shelled rebel-held areas for months. > > Fighters who had fled then used their knowledge of the area to chip away at the government forces, Colonel Jumaa Ibrahim of the region’s rebel military council told the Associated Press news agency via Skype. > > “They know all the hills and valleys, so they were able to trick the brigades and destroy some of their vehicles,” he said. > > Opposition fighters also pushed government troops from Shakshuk and Qasr al-Haj, two towns near a key road that runs along the mountain range’s northern edge, Ibrahim said. > > Ibrahim said opposition forces took the towns on Thursday then moved north to clash with Gaddafi forces in the village of Bir Ayyad on Friday. There were no immediate reports of casualties. > > After a brutal siege by pro-Gaddafi forces, Misurata, Libya’s third largest city, is now in opposition hands. Opposition fighters there have now pushed halfway to the town of Zlitan after taking control of Zintan. > > At one stage, their advance came to within 60km of Sirte but the government troops held their line and repelled the attack. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1380 "2011-06-05T01:29:11Z")
[NATO deploys attack helicopters in Libya:](http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/06/20116435635669472.html) > [@](#): > > NATO has for the first time used attack helicopters in Libya, striking military vehicles, military equipment and forces backing the Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi, the military alliance has announced. > > British and French attack helicopters were used to strike inside the country overnight, hitting targets in the oil port of Brega, NATO said on Saturday. > > “Attack helicopters under NATO command were used for the first time on 4 June 2011 in military operations over Libya as part of Operation Unified Protector,” a NATO statement said. > > Separately, Liam Fox, the British defence secretary, said: "This was the first operational mission flown by British Army Apaches at sea. > > “The additional capabilities now being employed by NATO further reinforces the UK’s enduring commitment and NATO’s determination to … ensure that the people of Libya are free to determine their own future.” > > Later on Saturday, William Hague, Britain’s foreign secretary, and Andrew Mitchell, the development secretary, met with leaders of the Interim National Council (INC) in Benghazi, eastern Libya. > > “We are here today for one principal reason - to show our support for the Libyan people and for the National Transitional Council, the legitimate representative of the Libyan people,” Hague said in a statement. > > Hague, accompanied by Mitchell, held talks with chief of the rebel National Transitional Council Mustafa al-Jalil. > > He also toured Benghazi’s landmark seafront as well as a medical centre treating war wounded. > > “Gaddafi should leave immediately,” Hague said. > > He told reporters Britain would also support demining efforts in Misrata, the main rebel-held city in western Libya, and deliver “more equipment, uniforms, bullet-proof jackets” to rebel fighters. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595.md?page=68) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595.md?page=70)