# Libya too?! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 16, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595 "2011-02-16T16:37:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Agnostic\_Pagan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c4cdca/32.png) [@Agnostic\_Pagan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agnostic_Pagan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/121 "2011-02-21T19:27:53Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > That is grounds for crimes against humanity trials that should follow. > > I think this time all nations should support an intervention by the UN, and/or the Arab league, and considering that there is the need for the [del]spice[/del] oil to continue to flow, this would have a good chance of happening. From [Al-Jazeera](http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/02/2011221133557377576.html): > [@](#): > > Meanwhile, Libya’s ambassadors at the United Nations are calling for Gaddafi to step down as the country’s ruler. > > Deputy Ambassador Ibrahim Dabbashi said on Monday that if Gaddafi does not relinquish power, "the Libyan people will get rid of him”. > > “We don’t agree with anything the regime is doing … we are here to serve the Libyan people,” Dabbashi told Al Jazeera. > > Dabbashi urged the international community to impose a no-fly zone over Libya to prevent mercenaries, weapons and other supplies from reaching Gadhafi and his security forces. The most amazing turn of events would be to see the Egyptian air force intervene and enforce a no-fly zone to protect those protesters. Also from that article: > [@](#): > > However, government officials in Venezuela have denied these reports, Al Jazeera’s Dima Khatib reported from Caracas. The Libyan deputy foreign minister also denied that Gaddafi had fled. I think he trying to find a pilot he can trust. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/122 "2011-02-21T19:30:41Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I wasn’t putting any general blame on any group of people. I thought it was an interesting picture. It’s been reported that Kadaffi has brought in mercenaries from sub-Saharan Africa. Saying that is in no way racist. Cripes. I wasn’t saying you’re racist bloody hell, I was saying the Libyans are and we needn’t buy into their claims that anyone black is not a Libyan. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/123 "2011-02-21T19:36:21Z")
Libyan U.N. mission declares allegiance to people UNITED NATIONS, Feb. 21 (Reuters) - The staff of Libya’s mission to the United Nations declared allegiance to the people of Libya, instead of to its government led by Muammar Gaddafi, a mission spokesman said on Monday. > **[Reuters | Breaking International News & Views](https://www.reuters.com?edition-redirect=af)** > > Find latest news from every corner of the globe at Reuters.com, your online source for breaking international news coverage. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/124 "2011-02-21T19:38:36Z")
> [@Agnostic\_Pagan](#): > > The most amazing turn of events would be to see the Egyptian air force intervene and enforce a no-fly zone to protect those protesters. That’d more likely fuel some kind of nationalist air war I suspect. > [@](#): > > I think he trying to find a pilot he can trust. I don’t think so, how could he trust so long a flight? The crazy bastard is going down fighting I think. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/125 "2011-02-21T20:01:06Z")
Huffpo says there is a report that military jets have fired on the protesters. It gets uglier and uglier. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/126 "2011-02-21T20:16:32Z")
[Picasso said it best.](http://bp0.blogger.com/_KmeU879465A/R-EhGBfJyZI/AAAAAAAAAMk/QZjRPtKy8xk/s1600-h/Picasso.Guernica2) ---
**Author:** ![Agnostic\_Pagan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c4cdca/32.png) [@Agnostic\_Pagan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agnostic_Pagan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/127 "2011-02-21T20:17:47Z")
> [@wmfellows](#): > > That’d more likely fuel some kind of nationalist air war I suspect. My understanding is that Egypt’s air force is fairly modern and up to date. Libya supposedly has about the same number of jets, but I doubt many/most are airworthy. I think any air war would be over pretty damn quick and in Egypts favor. Side note: where is our nearest carrier? > [@](#): > > I don’t think so, how could he trust so long a flight? The crazy bastard is going down fighting I think. He used to be a pilot, but who knows when was the last time he flew. But, yeah, I think he is going out Ceaușescu-style. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/128 "2011-02-21T20:19:43Z")
I wonder what his battalion of female bodyguards is up to. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/129 "2011-02-21T20:25:22Z")
> [@Agnostic\_Pagan](#): > > Side note: where is our nearest carrier? Sixth Fleet should be in the Med. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/130 "2011-02-21T20:26:54Z")
> [@Agnostic\_Pagan](#): > > Side note: where is our nearest carrier? I believe the _Enterprise_ was in the Gulf of Aden (as of Feb. 18; which way were they going?); the _Carl Vinson_ in the Arabian Sea (as of Feb. 16). ---
**Author:** ![Agnostic\_Pagan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c4cdca/32.png) [@Agnostic\_Pagan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agnostic_Pagan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/131 "2011-02-21T20:44:32Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > I believe the _Enterprise_ was in the Gulf of Aden (as of Feb. 18; which way were they going?); the _Carl Vinson_ in the Arabian Sea (as of Feb. 16). Just checked the navy’s site. Looks like the Enterprise just sailed through the Med, and is liking heading to Bahrain or patrol the Somali coast. I think they may be busy with the hostage crisis there. Look like we could deploy an air wing pretty fast if we needed to. Do we have permission to fly over Egyptian air space? ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/132 "2011-02-21T20:52:09Z")
Italian airbases ought to be in reasonable range, carrier group shouldn’t be necessary. Seems to me that either the Security Council, the Arab League, or NATO needs to tell Qaddafi that one way or another all his air assets will be on the ground for the foreseeable future. Not that ground forces can’t massacre civilians I guess. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/133 "2011-02-21T20:53:27Z")
> [@Agnostic\_Pagan](#): > > Just checked the navy’s site. Looks like the Enterprise just sailed through the Med, and is liking heading to Bahrain or patrol the Somali coast. I think they may be busy with the hostage crisis there. > > Look like we could deploy an air wing pretty fast if we needed to. Do we have permission to fly over Egyptian air space? To be honest, I think the best thing we can do here is essentially what we did with Egypt… stay far away, try not to shove our noses into this one. And stand by with humanitarian aid as fast as possible. I think a hospital ship docking at Tripoli might do more good for both Libya and PR about the US in the region than knocking down Libyan aircraft, as tempting as that is. Khaddafi is a monster. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/134 "2011-02-21T21:11:40Z")
Agreed, Americans or others blundering into this (without necessarily knowing who is who) is only going to give Gaddafi support - he’s arleady per BBC running the propaganda line that this is all a Western plot to provoke a re-colonisation of Libya. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/135 "2011-02-21T21:22:23Z")
NSFW [https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=203209353028633&oid=197898230226131&comments&ref=mf](https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=203209353028633&oid=197898230226131&comments&ref=mf) NSFW This is the video I mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/136 "2011-02-21T21:25:19Z")
Al-Jazeera reports several military aircraft sent to bomb Benghazi have instead landed their planes and the pilots defected there. > **[ZSU-23-4 Shilka](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZSU-23-4)** > > The ZSU-23-4 "Shilka" is a lightly armored Soviet self-propelled, radar-guided anti-aircraft weapon system (SPAAG). It was superseded by the 9K22 Tunguska (SA-19 Grison). > The acronym "ZSU" stands for Zenitnaya Samokhodnaya Ustanovka (Russian: Зенитная Самоходная Установка), meaning "anti-aircraft self-propelled system"; the "23" signifies the bore diametre in millimetres; the "4" signifies the number of gun barrels. It is named after the Shilka River in Russia. Afghan soldiers nicknamed it th... They’re using ZSU-23s on people. Libyan city of Misratah, east of Tripoli, is latest to be attacked by airstrikes. Heavy artillery fire devastates buildings as tanks roll into the city. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/137 "2011-02-21T21:31:31Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Libyan city of Misratah, east of Tripoli, is latest to be attacked by airstrikes. Heavy artillery fire devastates buildings as tanks roll into the city. But, **whose** aircraft, artillery and tanks? (It is no longer safe to make assumptions on that point.) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/138 "2011-02-21T21:33:03Z")
> [@wmfellows](#): > > Agreed, Americans or others blundering into this (without necessarily knowing who is who) is only going to give Gaddafi support - he’s arleady per BBC running the propaganda line that this is all a Western plot to provoke a re-colonisation of Libya. :smack: Dammit! He’s on to us! ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/139 "2011-02-21T22:09:19Z")
What countries are big users (or receivers) of Libyan oil? ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/140 "2011-02-21T22:12:01Z")
Oil is a fungible commodity, which means that any country may be receiving specifically Libyan oil, but in general it’s just sold on the open market. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595.md?page=8)