# Libya too?! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 16, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595 "2011-02-16T16:37:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 80
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1581 "2011-07-22T23:40:56Z")
> [@straight\_man](#): > > A fair point. Although, caveat: things have only really gotten bad for _Muslim_ terrorists. I don’t think, for example, there was any additional pressure on the Tamil Tigers, other than of the domestic losing-the-war variety, between 2001 and 2008. For that matter, I don’t think Irish terrorism isn’t looked down on much more than it was prior to 2001. Wasn’t there that American senator this year calling for investigations of Muslim terrorism to cover his own connections to the IRA? Does Irish terrorism even **happen** any more? ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1582 "2011-07-23T02:46:51Z")
No —it was stuff from the past. And I can’t find the thread, or I’d link to it. ☹ I don’t _think_ I was imagining it all! ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1583 "2011-07-23T04:33:19Z")
> [@straight\_man](#): > > For that matter, I don’t think Irish terrorism isn’t looked down on much more than it was prior to 2001. There are **no** Irish terrorists. There are only _freedom fighters_, battling British tyranny. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1584 "2011-07-23T04:34:33Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > That’s a naive position, and a naive example. “Terrorism” exists for a very simple reason: it works, and it’s relatively cheap. Look at the Empire, which is on the brink of economic collapse largely due to the course of action that it selected after 9/11. Funny you should mention that . . . It’s a pretty clear matter of public record (from his own published statements and speeches) what bin Laden was trying to accomplish: Step 1: Provoke a world war between the Western world and the Islamic world. Step 2: In response to the Western threat, unite all of Dar al-Islam from Morocco to Indonesia in a new Caliphate capable of kicking Western ass. Step 3: Prophet! He failed to reach step **one.** And a new Caliphate seems not one day nearer now than in 2001. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1585 "2011-07-23T05:45:11Z")
And it seems to have been a guy who was a nationalist and not so fond of islam who did Norway. Anders Behring Breivik is the name. So… yeah, great call, Commissar. Yep, clearly, retribution for Libya. He’s clearly very concerned about how Norway is attacking innocents. You really couldn’t wait until the buildings stopped smoking to use this for propaganda purposes? That’s just wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Commissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c68b51/32.png) [@Commissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commissar)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1586 "2011-07-23T07:18:53Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Funny you should mention that . . . It’s a pretty clear matter of public record (from his own published statements and speeches) what bin Laden was trying to accomplish: > > Step 1: Provoke a world war between the Western world and the Islamic world. > > Step 2: In response to the Western threat, unite all of Dar al-Islam from Morocco to Indonesia in a new Caliphate capable of kicking Western ass. > > Step 3: Prophet! > > He failed to reach step **one.** And a new Caliphate seems not one day nearer now than in 2001. And if we accept all of that… So what? Let us assume that bin Laden organized the attacks, and that your wild guess as to the intent behind them is correct. How does this support your position that terrorism accomplishes zilch? The fact remains that 9/11 convinced the Empire to slit its own throat and begin the transformation into a brutal, barbaric, and impoverished third-world police state. What does the current non-fulfillment of bin Laden’s alleged personal hopes and dreams have to do with any of this? Your arguments seem to have confused yourself; I can’t untangle this mess. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1587 "2011-07-23T07:38:28Z")
Empire Empire Empire Empire Empire Glorious! ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1588 "2011-07-23T07:45:33Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > And if we accept all of that…Let us assume that bin Laden organized the attacks…[factual stuff] The fact remains that 9/11 convinced the Empire to slit its own throat and begin the transformation into a brutal, barbaric, and impoverished third-world police state. [hypothetical stuff] [nada] ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1589 "2011-07-23T13:32:52Z")
Maestro, still playing. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1590 "2011-07-23T19:22:05Z")
!!! [I wasn’t expecting **feminism** to raise its pretty little head in this!](http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iCcLv5BmygoRMCDfC_Cj4H1zLjWg?docId=CNG.9f59001faaecb84c5db67bbb098e4e02.701) > [@](#): > > ZINTAN, Libya — Libyan men have had to reassess how they view the fairer sex since the start of the uprising, and when the dust settles the role of women in the north African country may well have changed for ever. > > The women of Libya – especially in the Nafusa Mountains – were among the protesters before the fighting started, and since then they have readied their sons and husbands for battle and nursed the wounded. > > Meanwhile, they are also fighting for their own emancipation in the new Libya they are helping their men to forge. > > \ > > They were chanting “Down with Kadhafi” at the start of the insurrection, alongside the men, calling for veteran strongman Moamer Kadhafi to go. > > “I’ve rallied with plenty of young women, even some pregnant ones. The men were so impressed they fired their Kalashnikovs in our honour! That showed them we were equal, and changed their opinion of us,” says Afaf Abusaa, a 20-year-old technology student. > > With the men away at the battlefield, the women secure the home front with housework and by providing moral support. > > “Men have seen the women nurse the wounded, do volunteer work and cook for the fighters. They’ve seen mothers tell their sons: ‘Go and fight. I will support you.’ They hadn’t expected that,” says Hana Akra, a 24-year-old medical intern. > > Women in Libya have come to see the revolution as a route towards their own emancipation, a way to break free from the jobs reserved for them: nurse, secretary or teacher, trades that leave time to take care of the family. > > Not they can see a future in which they are not overlooked for a position because a man, albeit a less qualified one, has applied for the same job. > > They hope that in the new Libya, their parents will allow them to select their own husbands, that their fathers and brothers will stop bossing them around and forbidding them from actively choosing their own path through life. > > “Society is very conservative here,” says Najiah Hamza, a 26-year-old medical student. “Women don’t really have the chance to control their own destiny. We are always told: ‘Don’t say this, don’t do that.’ I hope the revolution helps us.” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1591 "2011-07-24T17:43:40Z")
[Germany lends Libyan rebels $144 million!](http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/07/24/libya.germany/) > [@](#): > > (CNN) – Germany announced Sunday it has agreed to lend 100 million euros ($144 million) to the rebels in Libya for “civilian and humanitarian purposes” despite staying out of NATO’s bombing campaign against Libyan government forces. > > Germany had previously announced a loan of $10 million (7 million euros) for humanitarian aid to the Transitional National Council, the rebel movement that is battling to unseat longtime Libyan strongman Moammar Gadhafi. > > “Because of Colonel Gadhafi’s war against his own people, the situation in Libya is very difficult,” German Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle said in a statement announcing the loan. “There is a major lack of funds to build infrastructure, as well as a shortage of needed goods, ranging from medical supplies to food.” > > Germany has not participated in the NATO-led military effort in Libya and abstained from the U.N. Security Council vote that authorized military action to protect civilians from Gadhafi’s forces. But German Chancellor Angela Merkel said in June that her country shares the hope “that this NATO mission is successful.” Whatever, money’s fungible, whatever money they get to spend on food frees up money to spend on guns. ---
**Author:** ![eddiec3434](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cab0a1/32.png) [@eddiec3434](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eddiec3434)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1592 "2011-07-24T18:38:06Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Apparently.](http://www.voanews.com/english/news/Anti-Government-Protests-Break-Out-in-Libya-116309044.html) > > Hm. I thought the protests were scheduled for **tomorrow.** (See [here.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Libyan_protests)) Guess they got impatient. > > Just how stable/popular is Qaddafi’s regime, these days? Are we finally backing the rebels? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1593 "2011-07-24T19:23:26Z")
> [@eddiec3434](#): > > Are we finally backing the rebels? At least with [official recognition.](http://articles.cnn.com/2011-07-15/world/libya.us.recognition_1_libyan-rebels-transitional-national-council-misrata?_s=PM:WORLD) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1594 "2011-07-27T13:41:09Z")
[Britain to expel Gaddafi’s diplomats.](http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/07/2011727105552506145.html) The UK now recognizes the Transitional Council as the sole legitimate authority in Libya. ---
**Author:** ![Bibliovore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Bibliovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bibliovore)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1595 "2011-07-27T13:48:29Z")
Dare I permit myself another huzzah? Oh why not? Huzzah! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bibliovore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Bibliovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bibliovore)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1596 "2011-07-27T16:23:14Z")
[1st Political Party formed in Benghazi](http://www.news24.com/Africa/News/1st-political-party-formed-in-Benghazi-20110727) Whoo-hoo! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1597 "2011-07-27T16:56:26Z")
> [@Bibliovore](#): > > Dare I permit myself another huzzah? Oh why not? Huzzah! 😃 **Did** they ever get all of Gaddafi’s troops out of Brega? Nothing I can find googling makes that clear. Looking at [the second map down on this page,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Libyan_civil_war_2011) it appears the rebels have been adding to the territory they control in the **south,** now controlling Umm al Aranib, which is not far from Sabha, which is a vital source of supply for Tripoli. Any chance this signals a move on Sabha? ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1598 "2011-07-27T19:20:07Z")
I did mention the south was being overlooked. ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1599 "2011-07-27T19:55:30Z")
A propos to nothing, the Wikipedia maps are actually generous to Qaddafi, in the sense that they consider the default position to be pro-Qaddafi. I happen to know that at least one of the towns marked as government-occupied was (at least, last time I talked to my source) refusing to get involved in the conflict either way. That position definitely isn’t pro-rebel, but it isn’t exactly pro-Qaddafi, either. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1600 "2011-07-28T10:26:32Z")
Major action, Al Jawsh, Tiji, Badr, and Ghezaia. Possibly the biggest operation of the war. Ghezaia is the home base for a lot of G troops, and where a lot of Grad artillery units were. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595.md?page=79) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595.md?page=81)