# Libya too?! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 16, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595 "2011-02-16T16:37:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 81
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1601 "2011-07-28T12:19:40Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Major action, Al Jawsh, Tiji, Badr, and Ghezaia. Possibly the biggest operation of the war. Ghezaia is the home base for a lot of G troops, and where a lot of Grad artillery units were. But are they moving on Sabha? If they take Sabha, that might considerably shorten the time Tripoli can hold out. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1602 "2011-07-28T14:57:23Z")
Fighting fifty to forty miles south of Sabha/Sebha, scouts, some internal conflict, battle line has not actually reached it yet. (My news in that area is 4 days old.) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1603 "2011-07-28T16:56:03Z")
:eek: [The NTC just arrested its own General Younis!](http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/07/2011728144624965299.html) For smuggling arms to the Gaddafi loyalists! ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1604 "2011-07-28T22:13:26Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :eek: [The NTC just arrested its own General Younis!](http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/07/2011728144624965299.html) For smuggling arms to the Gaddafi loyalists! He’s now reported [killed](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/29/world/africa/29libya.html?_r=1), along with two of his aides. The rebels are saying one of the killers is under arrest. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1605 "2011-07-28T23:03:40Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > He’s now reported [killed](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/29/world/africa/29libya.html?_r=1), along with two of his aides. The rebels are saying one of the killers is under arrest. 😕 It’s all very through-the-looking-glass – and will appear no less so, I suspect, if the facts are ever determined. Well, I suppose this kind of thing is inevitable. Libya was **ready** for a civil war, but not **prepared** for a civil war – no longstanding organized insurgencies or opposition in-country. 41 years of misrule built up tinder that at last caught fire from sparks east and west, but nobody had any real plans laid for that eventuality. Neither side knows how to run a civil war. They’ve had to make it all up on the spot every step of the way. They’ve done that pretty impressively, under the circumstances, both sides. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1606 "2011-07-29T03:18:21Z")
I think BBC just said two of the killers have been arrested. They’re saying he was suspected by many rebels of being a Ka-Daffy mole, so it seems there was plenty of hate for him on both sides. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1607 "2011-07-29T10:32:35Z")
His killing/arrest may or may not have halted the assault on Brega. Interesting that nobody has the body. It is possible that it was done by pro-Gadaffi forces, interestingly enough. (Source: Interrogations of killers. This is going to be messy.) Ghazaya and Tekut are firmly in rebel hands. ---
**Author:** ![Commissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c68b51/32.png) [@Commissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commissar)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1608 "2011-07-29T18:42:28Z")
Well, looks like the facade is crumbling, and the West is forced to confront the fact that the traitors are flawed human beings after all, rather than some angelic Disneyfied heroes. Will the fact that they now appear to be murdering their own in a barbaric power struggle change anything? I rather doubt it, but there’s always hope that some of the less savage nations in Christendom will be consequently less willing to support the rebels. Still, even without the international dimension, the killing of the traitor general is a great development for Libya. Even if, as seems likely, he was murdered in cold blood by his fellow traitors, this will go a long way towards weakening their corrupt little movement. Let us hope that this marks the beginning of the end as the rebels slowly yet inexorably tear themselves apart. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1609 "2011-07-29T21:04:49Z")
Eyewitness report (MIGHT NOT BE ACCURATE): 150 cars and trucks manned by militant Islamists from the Takfir and Hijra group entered Arish city around 1:30 - 2:00 PM after Jumaa prayers, destroying a statue of former president Anwar Al-Sadat and proceeding to wreak havoc around the city, and attacking a major police station. They barred people from leaving their houses, confiscated cellphones and cameras and took over the city. They attacked the police station with RPGs, SPGs and automatic weapons. The military barrack in Arish reinforced the police station with several APCs and helicopters, with reinforcements coming from Rafah city (where another attack likely happened, no info) Battle is still on-going in Arish, the islamic militants number in the hundreds - possibly thousands. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1610 "2011-07-29T21:11:00Z")
What **is** the status of Brega now? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1611 "2011-07-29T22:17:32Z")
Speaking of “murdering their fellow traitors,” Commi, how about telling us about all those purges in the CCCP & PRC. That should be good. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1612 "2011-07-29T23:40:09Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > Well, looks like the facade is crumbling, and the West is forced to confront the fact that the traitors are flawed human beings after all, rather than some angelic Disneyfied heroes. Will the fact that they now appear to be murdering their own in a barbaric power struggle change anything? I rather doubt it, but there’s always hope that some of the less savage nations in Christendom will be consequently less willing to support the rebels. > > Still, even without the international dimension, the killing of the traitor general is a great development for Libya. Even if, as seems likely, he was murdered in cold blood by his fellow traitors, this will go a long way towards weakening their corrupt little movement. Let us hope that this marks the beginning of the end as the rebels slowly yet inexorably tear themselves apart. So, let me get this straight. You are, in all seriousness, supporting a guy who has been responsible for countless deaths and human rights abuses over a period of decades? And anyone who opposes him (and do I need to remind you that his rise to power wasn’t exactly by democratic means) is a traitor? If so, I don’t see that there’s any point in taking you seriously, period. P.S. “Christendom”? What, are you some kind of Crusader or something? ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1613 "2011-07-30T00:13:21Z")
Hard to say. Mines effing everywhere, and with this recent contrempts… call it stalled. That’s why the south and north are worth watching now. By the way, the above Arish bit was a report from _Egypt_. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1614 "2011-07-30T00:30:48Z")
Update, dateline Egypt: Militants are confirmed to be islamists belonging to the Takfir wal-Hijra group. They are well-trained and armed and the battle is still on-going in Arish with the army sending reinforcements from the border-town of Rafah and 2nd Army Field HQ in Ismailiya and they’ve surrounded the militants in a specific part of Arish, hoping that they’re going to eventually run out of ammo. So far 2 civilians confirmed dead, a 70-year old man and a 13-year old boy. As far as the police and military, there’s several casualties and one army officer confirmed killed, a captain. Tens of civilians and soldiers wounded, with 10 more unconfirmed deaths. Video: Warning, gunfire video. I may have overlooked death. [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZLI4sfp-b8) [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/aYqDMjaAiTI/hqdefault.jpg "29\7\2011 هتافات المسلحين امام مسجد الرفاعى ظهر اليوم") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYqDMjaAiTI) ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1615 "2011-07-30T01:59:25Z")
Eva, Commissar is on record as supporting totalitarianism. He’s claimed that tyrants are good as long as they’re following the will of the people, but also is strongly against freedom of speech and voting, leaving the obvious situation to be that in practice there is no possible way to determine or enact the will of the people, and petitioning for redress of grievances will land you in a gulag somewhere, if not dead. Those standards which has has set forward for a tyranny to be a ‘good’ tyranny have pretty much all been violated by the individual tyrants who he supports, leading to an interesting question. It is answered by[this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=598262&highlight=commissar), should you want to discuss it further. > [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > P.S. “Christendom”? What, are you some kind of Crusader or something? See the link above. [Also note that Russia is at least 70% Christian.](http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2006/71403.htm) Which, yep, makes them part of Christendom. Empire Empire Empire Empire Glorious Christendom Empire Glorious! ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1616 "2011-07-30T05:27:20Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Speaking of “murdering their fellow traitors,” Commi, how about telling us about all those purges in the CCCP & PRC. That should be good. No, don’t do that. Let’s save the purges elsewhere for other threads. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1617 "2011-07-30T08:54:13Z")
I’m not actually asking for a commentary from Commissar. I thought it was obvious that I was pointing out his, shall we say, _convenient_ use of the term “murdering their fellow traitors” when he’s griping about the Libyan rebels but when it’s some of his favorite tyrants/murderers who just so happened to get into power by treason and murder, what do you now, heroes! ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1618 "2011-07-30T09:42:01Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > By the way, the above Arish bit was a report from _Egypt_. I figured that out after a bit. What I couldn’t figure out is why it was posted in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1619 "2011-07-30T10:50:44Z")
Eh, had to post it somewhere, and the Egypt thread would be a zombie. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595/1620 "2011-07-30T12:38:50Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Eh, had to post it somewhere, and the Egypt thread would be a zombie. If you _had_ to post it, then why not start a new thread? This one’s about Libya. You’re likely to get more interest in a new thread as well, rather than shoehorning Egypt into post #1609 in a thread that is about Libya. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595.md?page=80) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libya-too/571595.md?page=82)