The only problem was Iraq II. Grenada, Panama, Iraq I were all spectecular successes.
“Spectacular success” and “good idea” are two different things.
But, I’ll remember that argument for next time a Pub bashes Obama for “getting us into” Libya.
If W had intervened in Libya, it almost certainly would have been something like that. Iraq was.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/06/24/house-weighs-cutting-off-funds-for-libya-mission/
House doesn’t authorize military action but doesn’t cut off funding either. Liked Senator McCain’s quote:
Well, this barbaric Western interference in the internal affairs of a proud Arab nation has been going on for over 100 days (longer than the equally vile and unjustified bombardment of Yugoslavia). It is encouraging to see that the Colonel is still in power, and that his government has refused to kowtow before Christendom.
Perhaps even more importantly, it is extremely heartening to see so many loyal Libyans continuing to fight for their government. Even in the face of overwhelming firepower brought to bear by their Western enemies, these brave loyalists risk death in order to protect the independence, stability, and future of their great nation. These selfless warriors seek neither riches nor glory. Unlike their treacherous co-nationals, they do not covet underserved power, nor do they mewl at the teat of foreign powers. They seek one thing and one thing only: the freedom to live as full human beings, free of foreign oppression. This is the human spirit at its finest! It is the same spirit that inspired so many of my kinsmen to take up arms against the NAZI invaders of my own glorious homeland. This is what gives me hope for the future. I am proud to be a citizen of a world in which so many choose to die on their feet rather than to live on their knees.
Yugoslavia? That was to stop a genocide. Can you think of a better reason to bomb a country?!
Thing is, your argument is missing a crucial step. I agree that genocide is, by and large, a negative development, and should be discouraged by our species. That’s the general rule; problems arise when one tries to implement it in practice. Who gets to decide what qualifies as “genocide?” Who gets to decide when a military intervention is warranted? Who gets to decide when it is not warranted?
Basically, I do not trust the West to make these determinations in anything approaching a fair fashion. Hell, I wouldn’t even trust nations that I do like to make such judgment calls. As far as I can see, there is absolutely nothing that gives anyone any authority to interfere in the affairs of other nations. Sans such authority, any intervention is de facto unjust and unjustifiable.
Moreover, I am of the strong opinion that nations tend to end up better off if allowed to solve their own problems at their own pace. Take Rwanda, for example. Unlike most Westerners, I am extremely pleased that the world let it do its own thing when it was getting its pent-up energies out of its system. Without foreign meddling, the issue quickly took care of itself, the stronger side won, and the nation was able to reconcile with its past. Result: a stronger, more stable, and more vibrant Rwanda. Note that I am not saying that the Rwandan genocide was good for Rwanda, only that there was no better way of dealing with it than the hands-off approach that prevailed. I doubt that Rwanda would have been able to make such great progress had it been bombed into the Stone Age, invaded by Westerners, and shredded into a patchwork quilt of ridiculous little hostile states (a la Yugoslavia).
Commisar
What was your “glorious homeland” that was invaded by the Nazis?
Also if you hate the Nazis so much why are you such an enthusiastic supporter of Arab nationalism considering how many of the Arab nationalists supported the Nazis?
Since most of the defenders are mercenaries hired from outside Libya, by definition they seek, if not riches, at least payment.
:dubious: Don’t you think it is extremely telling, and not in any way that reflects well on Gaddafi or his supporters, that there are no foreign powers left anywhere in the world, not even Venezuela, willing to offer them the teat?
Remember, when you are right and the whole world is wrong . . . you are probably not right.
FWIW, Bill Clinton has stated that one of his greatest regrets from his time in office was that he did nothing about Rwanda. (At the time, he was dealing with political fallout from the Somalia intervention, and another intervention in Africa seemed like too hard a sell; but he wishes he had done it anyway, or at least made an effort.)
wtfmate
This boggles me. I usually take human rights orgs with a grain of salt, as they vilify everyone, but this is awkward.
The Independent is, as usual, critical:
The U.S. has said (according to NPR this afternoon) that we’re openly trying to assassinate Ghaddafi.
It’s hardly surprising that at least some of the reports were made up. That said, it strikes me as unlikely that all (or even most of) the reports were made up, and it’s a little early to know for sure — after all, a number of the areas where large-scale massacres were said to take place are still under government control, and some criminal acts (like murdering dissidents) aren’t all that hard to cover up, in terms of physical evidence.
ETA: trying to assassinate Qaddafi strikes me as the only decent thing to do. He is, after all, the commander of the military, and his death would be strategically more important than that of his underlings; so why should his life be treated as worth more?
EATA: AFAIK, the mass rape thing didn’t become a news story until a couple weeks ago. It’ll be nice if it’s not true.
“By and large”? Are you implying that there are times when genocide is justified? :dubious:
Well, now that depends.
Can supporting genocide somehow be anti-western and/or pro tyranny?
Well, we can’t very well be having with all those coarse, crude Neanderthals around here, now can we? sniff Better this way.
And now the Libyan football team has defected to the rebels in a major propaganda coup, according to the BBC.
The Beeb also interviewed the rebels’ defense secretary. He said information from a string of high-level defectors shows Ka-Daffy’s close circle is growing smaller by the day. He expects an end to this about August.
Are we still going on about Libya? Why haven’t we started a new war by now. This one is already boring.
The Syrians keep pussyfooting around . . . what can you do?