# Libyan Killing of Ambassador And Staff: How Will This Play Out In Election? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 12, 2012, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511 "2012-09-12T15:42:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/41 "2012-09-12T18:04:49Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Also, hundreds of marines are on the way to Libya. So your fantasies of Obama doing nothing are, well, fantasies. Um check your math. [50 Marines](http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/2012/09/12/marines-headed-libya-reinforce-security/C6KmiCMqoU9GLhE12VDsKK/story.html) is not “hundreds”. And sure, locking the barn door after the horse has bolted is “presidential and statesmanlike”. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/42 "2012-09-12T18:05:23Z")
Embassies are statements of trust. Ambassadors know this, it is part of the deal. Security of some degree is permitted, of course, but no embassy has an armored division in its courtyard. There is little to no chance we will ever actually get our hands on the perpetrators, it was a mob, and a mob has no identity. If we press them, the Libyans will likely round up some usual suspects, probably people they’d like to be rid of anyway. And some of them will be guilty. Ambassador Steven almost certainly knew the risks he was taking. He did it anyway, rather like a soldier serves his country, but he doesn’t get to shoot back. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/43 "2012-09-12T18:08:46Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Um check your math. [50 Marines](http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/2012/09/12/marines-headed-libya-reinforce-security/C6KmiCMqoU9GLhE12VDsKK/story.html) is not “hundreds”. And sure, locking the barn door after the horse has bolted is “presidential and statesmanlike”. 50 to 200 by the reporting on MSNBC. They said hundreds earlier, if it’s clarified in more detail, I’ll grant this nit. You would rather that 200 marines be added to the security detail at every working embassy? Doesn’t that seem stupid to you? You have nothing. You’re just stamping your feet at this point. Insisting that Obama bungled this doesn’t make it so. Face it, your guy Romney just shit himself and is proudly marching around in the sagging diaper. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/44 "2012-09-12T18:10:52Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > There is little to no chance we will ever actually get our hands on the perpetrators, it was a mob, and a mob has no identity. Al Qaeda does have an identity. Since there’s reason to think they’re responsible for this anyway, I expect it’ll be visited on their heads. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/45 "2012-09-12T18:11:11Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > There is little to no chance we will ever actually get our hands on the perpetrators, it was a mob, and a mob has no identity. Well, the mob doesn’t have an identity, but the guys firing RPGs probably do. So I don’t think its that inconceivable that the people actually responsible for the murder will be held responsible (in the footage I saw of the Egyptian riot, you could also see dozens of people taking pictures on celphones, if Libya was the same way I imagine there will be a decent amount of photographic evidence). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/46 "2012-09-12T18:11:23Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > You have nothing. You’re just stamping your feet at this point. Insisting that Obama bungled this doesn’t make it so. Face it, your guy Romney just shit himself and is proudly marching around in the sagging diaper. See above: take this to the Pit thread. ---
**Author:** ![JQPublic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac8455/32.png) [@JQPublic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JQPublic)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/47 "2012-09-12T18:22:57Z")
Bush’s fault, all of it. Missing around 60% of intelligence meetings - Bush’s fault. Under funding embassy security - Bush’s fault. Those pesky Letterman appearances - Bush’s fault. Campaigning and fund raising taking up too much time to visit other world leaders - Bush’s fault. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/48 "2012-09-12T18:24:19Z")
> [@JQPublic](#): > > Bush’s fault, all of it. Missing around 60% of intelligence meetings - Bush’s fault. Under funding embassy security - Bush’s fault. Those pesky Letterman appearances - Bush’s fault. Campaigning and fund raising taking up too much time to visit other world leaders - Bush’s fault. So you think Romney’s missteps are Bush’s fault? That might be a little much. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/49 "2012-09-12T18:24:54Z")
> [@JQPublic](#): > > Bush’s fault, all of it. Missing around 60% of intelligence meetings - Bush’s fault. Under funding embassy security - Bush’s fault. Those pesky Letterman appearances - Bush’s fault. Campaigning and fund raising taking up too much time to visit other world leaders - Bush’s fault. I suspect you are being facetious. BTW, not one person has blamed this on Bush even slightly. Nice try though. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/50 "2012-09-12T18:26:15Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > He will deploy the diplomatic and intelligence assets of the US to ensure the attackers are caught and punished. > > But since this is an election thread, I was actually thinking about the optics. Obama is going to look presidential and statesmanlike. Romney is going to foolish and desparate, someone who can’t get his facts straight and who is politicizing a national tragedy. Well, Romney has solidified his hold on the “Obama is a Kenyan Muslim Socialist” demographic. I hear that he was worried that these folks were beginning to slip away. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/51 "2012-09-12T18:26:35Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Embassies are statements of trust. Ambassadors know this, it is part of the deal. Security of some degree is permitted, of course, but no embassy has an armored division in its courtyard. > > There is little to no chance we will ever actually get our hands on the perpetrators, it was a mob, and a mob has no identity. If we press them, the Libyans will likely round up some usual suspects, probably people they’d like to be rid of anyway. And some of them will be guilty. > > Ambassador Steven almost certainly knew the risks he was taking. He did it anyway, rather like a soldier serves his country, but he doesn’t get to shoot back. All true. Doesn’t make Obama look less weak and ineffectual when all he can do is issue statements in response, though. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/52 "2012-09-12T18:27:58Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Only if you think that issuing strongly-worded statements and being unable to do anything else (that is visible) is “presidential and statesmanlike”. Most Americans whose noses are not stuck up Obama’s behind will view it as weak as ineffectual. Which is a bit unfair, since Obama can’t do anything, but that’s the way it is. What exactly do you mean by “do anything”? There really is nothing useful to be done about this save what Obama is already doing about it. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/53 "2012-09-12T18:28:16Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Al Qaeda does have an identity. Not really; any bunch of malconents can declare itself to be “Al-Qaeda In Dumfukistan”. It’s not like they have a central organization with a staff of trademark lawyers on retainer or something. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/54 "2012-09-12T18:28:20Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > All true. Doesn’t make Obama look less weak and ineffectual when all he can do is issue statements in response, though. Could you explain in detail what Obama could do that would make him seem competent in your eyes? Specifics please. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/55 "2012-09-12T18:28:25Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > All true. Doesn’t make Obama look less weak and ineffectual when all he can do is issue statements in response, though. Is there anyone in particular you would like us to kill? Be nice if you could be specific. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/56 "2012-09-12T18:28:28Z")
Temperament and timing matter to public perception. Romney should know that in the immediate wake of a tragedy overseas, the public and the press generally will coalesce in support of the president regardless of party, and to fight that consensus will be seen as churlish. There are legitimate questions to be raised here, once some decent time has passed: Was there adequate intelligence and security for the consular staff? Has the US ultimately benefited from overthrowing Qaddafi, if Libya has devolved into a violent mess? What happened to the notion of restoring our standing in the Muslim world? But by jumping the gun, Romney made this into a matter of personal image that he likely can’t win. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/57 "2012-09-12T18:29:01Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > “echo chamber” ererererererer ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/58 "2012-09-12T18:30:07Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > All true. Doesn’t make Obama look less weak and ineffectual when all he can do is issue statements in response, though. There really is nothing useful to be done about this save what Obama is already doing about it. You **do** understand that, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/59 "2012-09-12T18:30:32Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Not really; any bunch of malconents can declare itself to be “Al-Qaeda In Dumfukistan”. Yes, they can. And whoever in Libya was doing that is likely to wind up on the wrong end of a predator drone sooner rather than later. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/60 "2012-09-12T18:30:51Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Well, Romney has solidified his hold on the “Obama is a Kenyan Muslim Socialist” demographic. I hear that he was worried that these folks were beginning to slip away. Actually, [that demographic _ **is** _ slipping away from him](http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/11/us-usa-election-poll-bible-belt-idUSBRE88A05H20120911): > [@](#): > > Sheryl Harris, a voluble 52-year-old with a Virginia drawl, voted twice for George W. Bush. Raised Baptist, she is convinced – despite all evidence to the contrary – that President Barack Obama, a practicing Christian, is Muslim. > > So in this year’s presidential election, will she support Mitt Romney? Not a chance. > > “Romney’s going to help the upper class,” said Harris, who earns $28,000 a year as activities director of a Lynchburg senior center. “He doesn’t know everyday people, except maybe the person who cleans his house.” > > She’ll vote for Obama, she said: “At least he wasn’t brought up filthy rich.”… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511.md?page=4)