# Libyan Killing of Ambassador And Staff: How Will This Play Out In Election? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 12, 2012, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511 "2012-09-12T15:42:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Jocko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncle_jocko/32/2932_2.png) [@Uncle\_Jocko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Jocko)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/81 "2012-09-12T19:21:00Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The Romney campaign apparently does; [they’re already desperately flailing for damage-control.](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/12/romney-camp-tries-to-manage-fallout-from-libya-response/) Wow. It sure didn’t take long for the Romney campaign’s “talking points” to be leaked to the media. Methinks someone these desperately spinning talking points were given to isn’t much in favor of the way the campaign is trying to handle this. As for Terr … he wants Obama to fly to Libya right now and beat up some of those murderous thugs! With his bare hands! And he needs to fly there with only a cape, no wussy aircraft! Just like in the Sgt. Rock comics! Cause that’s the only way he can look strong to the 'Merican public! Hoo rah! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/82 "2012-09-12T19:26:36Z")
> [@Uncle\_Jocko](#): > > As for Terr … he wants Obama to fly to Libya right now and beat up some of those murderous thugs! With his bare hands! And he needs to fly there with only a cape, no wussy aircraft! Just like in the Sgt. Rock comics! Cause that’s the only way he can look strong to the 'Merican public! Hoo rah! **Terr** hasn’t said anything of the kind. What he wants is for the public to think Obama looks bad on this. That seems to be the beginning and the end of it. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/83 "2012-09-12T19:48:25Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The Romney campaign apparently does; [they’re already desperately flailing for damage-control.](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/12/romney-camp-tries-to-manage-fallout-from-libya-response/) I like this part: > [@Romney campaign memo](#): > > We must strive to ensure that the Arab Spring is not followed by an Arab Winter. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/84 "2012-09-12T19:56:09Z")
mber ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/85 "2012-09-12T20:01:41Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The Romney campaign apparently does; [they’re already desperately flailing for damage-control.](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/12/romney-camp-tries-to-manage-fallout-from-libya-response/) Maybe Mitt should change the subject by releasing those sooper sekrit tax returns… 😛 ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/86 "2012-09-12T20:32:55Z")
First, the echo chamber jokes in this thread are fantastic and every single one of them has given me a chuckle. Second, Obama has pushed back against Romney in [a CBS News interview](http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/obama-on-romneys-libya-response-shoot-first-aim?ref=fpa) (bolding mine): > [@](#): > > “There’s a broader lesson to be learned here: **Governor Romney seems to have a tendency to shoot first and aim later** and as president one of the things I’ve learned is you can’t do that,” Obama told CBS News on Wednesday.“It’s important for you to make sure that the statements that you make are backed up by the facts and that you’ve thought through the ramifications before you make them.” Romney tried to take control of the news cycle and it backfired on him big time. I’m not sure how anybody on the right can really spin this as anything but a disaster for Romney. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/87 "2012-09-12T20:38:16Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I like this part: > [@Romney campaign memo](#): > > We must strive to ensure that the Arab Spring is not followed by an Arab Winter. If you’re going to mock Obama’s “Forward” slogan, you might as well go full out on doing the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/88 "2012-09-12T20:41:43Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I would be surprised if this was any more than a small percentage of Americans, subsisting primarily of mouth-breathing morons with a little too much testosterone, and a tendency to drink beer until they fall down into their own vomit. Pretty much, yeah. But, as I hope we all learned in 2010, that voting base can’t be safely ignored. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/89 "2012-09-12T20:43:24Z")
> [@Uncle\_Jocko](#): > > As for Terr … he wants Obama to fly to Libya right now and beat up some of those murderous thugs! With his bare hands! And he needs to fly there with only a cape, no wussy aircraft! No capes! ---
**Author:** ![babygoat666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2acd7d/32.png) [@babygoat666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/babygoat666)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/90 "2012-09-12T20:54:34Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Only if you think that issuing strongly-worded statements and being unable to do anything else (that is visible) is “presidential and statesmanlike”. Most Americans whose noses are not stuck up Obama’s behind will view it as weak as ineffectual. Which is a bit unfair, since Obama can’t do anything, but that’s the way it is. It would appear that Mr. Weak and Ineffectual has issued some strongly-worded drones in Libya’s general direction. So much for your theory. [Link](http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/09/report-drones-headed-to-libya-135317.html) ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/91 "2012-09-12T20:57:56Z")
> [@babygoat666](#): > > It would appear that Mr. Weak and Ineffectual has issued some strongly-worded drones in Libya’s general direction. So much for your theory. > [Link](http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/09/report-drones-headed-to-libya-135317.html) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15484320&postcount=75](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15484320&postcount=75) ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/92 "2012-09-12T21:04:04Z")
I hope this mans death never becomes a political issue. He was there assisting the Libyans to form a new government. I don’t think the small group that did this had any support from the majority of Libyans. They haven’t forgotten the assistance we gave taking down Gaddafi. We do need to proceed carefully. Don’t let this tragedy deter the mission to help Libya’s emerging government. I’m hoping they’ll help us hunt done the group responsible for these murders. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/93 "2012-09-12T21:05:20Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15484320&postcount=75](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15484320&postcount=75) But he’s still weak and ineffectual? Be honest, it’s because of the (D) after his name. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/94 "2012-09-12T21:10:38Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > First, the echo chamber jokes in this thread are fantastic and every single one of them has given me a chuckle. > > Second, Obama has pushed back against Romney in [a CBS News interview](http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/obama-on-romneys-libya-response-shoot-first-aim?ref=fpa) (bolding mine): > > Romney tried to take control of the news cycle and it backfired on him big time. I’m not sure how anybody on the right can really spin this as anything but a disaster for Romney. Yeah I was just going to post this. It was a touch risky for Obama to go after Romney himself but he executed it perfectly striking just the right tone. And it definitely raises the stakes when Obama says it himself. It builds on a theme from his convention speech: presenting himself as a sober statesman in contrast to the Romney’s callowness and inexperience abroad. It doesn’t hurt that Romney and Ryan have the least foreign policy and national security experience of any ticket in several decades. Even in 1992, Al Gore had a reputation as a significant figure on nuclear proliferation and arms control. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/95 "2012-09-12T21:13:42Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Only if you think that issuing strongly-worded statements and being unable to do anything else (that is visible) is “presidential and statesmanlike”. Let’s set aside for a moment how objective effective Obama’s words are and consider the comparison to Romney, whatever Obama says, it’s certainly more presidential and statesmanlike than completely bungling your statement, as Romney has done. \*\*Romney’s criticism was factually wrong. \*\*He accused Obama of doing something that Obama objectively, unquestionably did not do; it is not a matter of opinion or political perspective. He fucked up. It’s that simple. The correct thing for Romney to do would be to admit that he (or someone working for him) committed an embarassing gaffe, apologize, and move on, which would kill this story in a couple of days. But he isn’t, which simply makes him look like more of a fool. In fact, his factually incorrect statement is still on his website: [http://www.mittromney.com/blogs/mitts-view/2012/09/statement-developments-libya-and-egypt-1](http://www.mittromney.com/blogs/mitts-view/2012/09/statement-developments-libya-and-egypt-1) ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/96 "2012-09-12T21:18:29Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Temperament and timing matter to public perception. Romney should know that in the immediate wake of a tragedy overseas, the public and the press generally will coalesce in support of the president regardless of party, and to fight that consensus will be seen as churlish. > > There are legitimate questions to be raised here, once some decent time has passed: Was there adequate intelligence and security for the consular staff? Has the US ultimately benefited from overthrowing Qaddafi, if Libya has devolved into a violent mess? What happened to the notion of restoring our standing in the Muslim world? But by jumping the gun, Romney made this into a matter of personal image that he likely can’t win. Yes, I would say that Romney has not looked particularly Presidential during this episode. Attacking a President during the midst of a passing foreign crisis on the basis of a lie has terrible optics. Let’s remember [the Cairo condemnation of the bigoted film](http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/09/a-timeline-of-the-attacks-in-libya-and-egypt----and-the-responses.php?ref=fpblg) came _before_ the attacks in Libya. It even came before the attacks in Cairo. Foreign policy 101 states that [_you don’t need to respond instantly._](http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/09/mitt-romney-drops-his-3-am-phone-call/262285/) Prudence dictates that you wait before you get the facts. And in this case the Romney campaign was mispresenting things that were already known. > [@Terr](#): > > Nothing different. And I would look as weak and ineffectual as he is looking right now. Ok, I got your point. I’ll politely observe that you have no evidence – though evidence about public opinion would be very hard to generate in this case. You might be right – but I think I can establish _at least_ that the evidence is mixed. Most people see “sending troops to protect the embassy” as doing something. When Libyan security forces fight the mob it is noticed. And there very well may be opportunities to strike at some of the perps. If so, that would be a good thing _substantively_. Right? **Marking to market and forecasts** I am a little surprised at Romney’s incompetence. Something like this can crater campaigns. If his polls are up _in three weeks time_, I’ll have to re-assess my take – I don’t have public polling evidence of my contentions either. Final prediction: I don’t expect Republican foreign policy experts to rally around Romney’s judgment during this episode. He is a loser and they have reputations to protect. Of course their electoral influence is minimal and their distancing won’t be noticed too much. ---
**Author:** ![Kyomara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8edcca/32.png) [@Kyomara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyomara)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/97 "2012-09-12T21:33:41Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The Romney campaign apparently does; [they’re already desperately flailing for damage-control.](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/12/romney-camp-tries-to-manage-fallout-from-libya-response/) Those talking points don’t look like “flailing” to me at all. It doesn’t include anything to walk back his comments, or even tacitly admit that he may have spoken too soon. It looks to me like this is part of the plan. In other words, what Romney said may have been a mistake, but I’m not convinced that it wasn’t said deliberately, and with the current strategy already in place. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/98 "2012-09-12T21:41:46Z")
> [@Kyomara](#): > > In other words, what Romney said may have been a mistake, but I’m not convinced that it wasn’t said deliberately, and with the current strategy already in place. You mean he didn’t repeatedly criticize Obama by accident? …I’m not quite sure what you’re trying to say here. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/99 "2012-09-12T21:45:59Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You mean he didn’t repeatedly criticize Obama by accident? > > …I’m not quite sure what you’re trying to say here. Maybe it is the idea, which I have read elsewhere, that Romney needs to “go big, or go home”, i.e. he was losing the race before this, he needed something big to change the dynamic and so he is running with this, its his only chance. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/100 "2012-09-12T22:15:56Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Maybe it is the idea, which I have read elsewhere, that Romney needs to “go big, or go home”, i.e. he was losing the race before this, he needed something big to change the dynamic and so he is running with this, its his only chance. THIS. It was Mitt’s Hail Mary to try and stop the bleed out of the conventions. But it was a huge mistake to attack when he said he wouldn’t on September 11. It’s just made things worse. Now, the next couple of days we’re going to see a swing from the economy where the two camps are tied, to foreign policy, and that’s Obama’s strength. Definitely not something the Republicans wanted to see happen. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511.md?page=6)