# Libyan Killing of Ambassador And Staff: How Will This Play Out In Election? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 12, 2012, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511 "2012-09-12T15:42:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2012, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/141 "2012-09-14T19:34:09Z")
No more of that, please- this isn’t the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2012, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/142 "2012-09-14T19:35:07Z")
Apologies. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2012, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/143 "2012-09-14T20:15:09Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Clearly the only reason we wouldn’t have posted a link to a “exclusive” story which only appeared in one UK paper this morning is because of a massive liberal coverup and not, say, because most of us hadn’t **seen** it yet. “Oddly”, anyone else would have just posted the link and asked about it without suggesting that the fact that no one else had posted it yet was the result of a deliberate act. Oh, yay! I love to play. That story broke approximately 21 hours ago, or about 7 PM EST. I posted at 4:01 AM EST the following day. By my completely non-expert calculations, that’s about nine hours-- plenty of time to acknowledge a whopper of a revelation given the propensity of some to be right on top of every little thing said and done by Republicans/Romney. Rest assured, if the above mentioned information came out in regards to some Republican, I’d have seen it continually referenced from the moment the story broke. (BTW\> The story appeared on HuffingtonPost, so I find it hard to believe that you didn’t hear about it at all. Then again, since most major liberal news cites ignored it and still haven’t acknowledged it, I can sorta’ believe it. But moving on…) > [@](#): > > And it’s concerning, yes, but short on facts about what the State Department knew. We get this:but nothing else on the “warning”, so I have no idea yet whether or not they acted inappropriately given what they knew. Could eventually be damning, but we need to know more. I think we’ve already seen what happens when one comments prematurely. Short on facts, huh? Interesting. If you know that it’s 9/11 and you’ve received credible information that American embassies are being targetted by terrorist organizations, then it’s grossly negligent to do nothing in preparation for it. Just because I want to laugh at the eventual double standard you’re going to throw at in the way we process potentially damning information, what kind of information are you waiting for? ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/144 "2012-09-14T20:37:11Z")
The White House denies it according to Reuters: WHITE HOUSE SAYS THERE WAS NO “ACTIONABLE INTELLIGENCE” IN ADVANCE ABOUT ATTACK ON U.S. CONSULATE IN LIBYA ---
**Author:** ![alohatweetie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/13edae/32.png) [@alohatweetie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alohatweetie)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2012, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/145 "2012-09-14T20:45:54Z")
Gov Romney in his haste to get out front without the facts managed to step on the Prez’s toes and put his foot in his mouth. It was political and self-serving. It was viscerally bad on 9/11 no less. Today I watched the “dignified transfer” ceremony with a heavy heart. It was a “rookie” misstep and should have been admitted. And now a few Republicans are piling on to defend it! Peggy Noonan, former Reagan staffer said about the Gov. at the press conference afterwards said “He looked like Nixon”. I am liable to remember this. Channeling Reagan, he was Not. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2012, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/146 "2012-09-14T21:01:43Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > The White House denies it according to Reuters: > > WHITE HOUSE SAYS THERE WAS NO “ACTIONABLE INTELLIGENCE” IN ADVANCE ABOUT ATTACK ON U.S. CONSULATE IN LIBYA Do you expect them NOT to deny it (whether it’s true or not)? Look, there was definitely no “ACTIONABLE INTELLIGENCE” in advance about 9/11 either. Didn’t stop Democrats from excoriating the Bush administration about it for what - 11 years now? ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2012, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/147 "2012-09-14T21:08:53Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > The White House denies it according to Reuters: > > WHITE HOUSE SAYS THERE WAS NO “ACTIONABLE INTELLIGENCE” IN ADVANCE ABOUT ATTACK ON U.S. CONSULATE IN LIBYA Of course they’re going to deny it. Do you think they’d come out and say, “Yeah, it’s true. So what?” or something to that effect? Anyway, [here](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19605322) is an article from the BBC. > [@](#): > > The US consulate in Benghazi, where the US ambassador to Libya died in an attack on Tuesday, was not given the standard security contract offered to many American diplomatic missions in the Middle East, private military contractors have told the BBC. > > The consulate’s walls were breached in just 15 minutes, guards were outgunned and overwhelmed and four US personnel were killed, including the Ambassador, J Christopher Stevens. > > US embassies and consulates in areas of the world where they are deemed liable to attack are usually offered a formal security contract called a Worldwide Protective Services Agreement, known in the industry as a ‘Wips’. > > **The contract, or so-called tasking order, is between the US state department and any one of several major private military contractors such as DynCorp International and Aegis Defence Services**. > > Under this agreement, extensive security precautions are put in place, including low-profile armoured vehicles, run-flat tyres, sufficient weapons, ammunition and trained personnel, as well as a tried and tested command and control system. > > But sources have told the BBC that on the advice of a US diplomatic regional security officer, the mission in Benghazi was not given the full contract despite lobbying by private contractors. > > **Instead, the US consulate was guarded externally by a force of local Libyan militia, many of whom reportedly put down their weapons and fled once the mission came under concerted attack**. Emphasis mine. I’d like to see the spin on this one. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2012, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/148 "2012-09-14T21:11:03Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Do you expect them NOT to deny it (whether it’s true or not)? Exactly! Whether it’s true or not, they’re lying. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2012, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/149 "2012-09-14T21:24:15Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Emphasis mine. I’d like to see the spin on this one. If true, then the Regional Security Officer fucked up big-time. So what? ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2012, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/150 "2012-09-14T22:29:20Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Do you expect them NOT to deny it (whether it’s true or not)? > > Look, there was definitely no “ACTIONABLE INTELLIGENCE” in advance about 9/11 either. Didn’t stop Democrats from excoriating the Bush administration about it for what - 11 years now? Nice try. You can’t hang that on the Dems. Bush and the boys will have to stew in it and his Mission Accomplished in perpetuity. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2012, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/151 "2012-09-14T22:31:46Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Do you expect them NOT to deny it (whether it’s true or not)? > > Look, there was definitely no “ACTIONABLE INTELLIGENCE” in advance about 9/11 either. Didn’t stop Democrats from excoriating the Bush administration about it for what - 11 years now? Nice try. You can’t hang that on the Dems. Bush and the boys will have to stew in it and his Mission Accomplished in perpetuity. but in case you’re wondering > **[No actionable intelligence prior to Benghazi attack: US](https://zeenews.india.com/news/world/us-denies-libya-embassy-attack-was-premeditated_799599.html)** > > Earlier, reports citing unnamed diplomatic sources said the State Department had credible information that its Benghazi mission could be attacked. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2012, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/152 "2012-09-14T23:38:20Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > but in case you’re wondering > [No actionable intelligence prior to Benghazi attack: US | World News | Zee News](http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/us-denies-libya-embassy-attack-was-premeditated_799599.html) And if Carney closes his eyes, ears and hums loudly, it will help as well. “Carney said the cause of attack on Benghazi Consulate is under investigation, but so far there is no concrete evidence other than that it was in protest against the video.” Yup. Because the protestors in Arab countries routinely bring heavy weapons and RPGs to protests. And of course the 9/11 date has no significance whatsoever. It’s just a coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/153 "2012-09-15T04:21:08Z")
Its amazing how Republicans always want to connect the dots between violence in the Middle East of a fledgling democracy with the terrorist attack 911. But unlike souless Romney, when 911 occurred both sides of the aisle came together and gave the President respect when dealing with this tragedy. Not only that, the country had the good will of the world until Bush squandered it. Everyone was an American on 911. As Huntsman said on CNN tonight, this is a generational change for the Middle East, so there’s bound to be tensions in the region. The Libyan citizens distance themselves from the thugs in the streets. It’s definitely not another 911 [http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0913/breaking5.html](http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0913/breaking5.html) ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/154 "2012-09-17T14:42:24Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Don’t believe your own propaganda. Look in the mirror dude. It just doesn’t look good for Romney that he jumped out so far ahead of the facts. He had no way of knowing it was a tragedy when he first made his statements but he did know (or SHOULD have known) that the consulate comment he was criticizing came out BEFORE the aqttack on the consulate not as a RESULT of the attacks on the consulte. It is telling that one of his most competent surrogates Rob Portman didn’t know this fact. > [@Terr](#): > > What he can do is send a few drones, kill a few Libyans, claim that those were the ones responsible. It would be stupid and counterproductive in terms of foreign policy, but it would be politically savvy for home consumption and make him look less weak and ineffectual. > > I actually expect him to do just that. Just wait a few days. Obama knew where Osama bin laden was before the 2010 election, he chose to hold off and kill ObL in the beginning of 2011 when it would have the least political impact for him (he could have done it before the 2010 election and staved off the crushing defeat in the house (which may have even let them maintain the majority, remember how many districts won by very thin margins) and so many state houses. Or he could have sat on ObL until after the Republican primary and just run away with the election. Why didn’t he do that? If he kills peopel with drones, he is going to make sure he kills the right people. His track record on foreign policy and national security has earned him the benefit of the doubt on all these fronts. > [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Actually, taking out a few terrorist camps would be rather prudent and productive in preventing them from effectively exploiting the situation. Since I’m not privy to the full intel on the situation, I can’t predict whether or not the administration will identify targets confidently enough to proceed. If he knew about terrrorist camps, he would have taken them out already. he’s not saving a bunch for a rainy day. > [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Now that Goode is on the ballot in Virginia, Romney is going to lose enough of the hardcore Talibornagains to make it pretty much impossible, as opposed to merely very difficult, for him to carry the state. He is turning Vriginia from a toos up state into a lean Obama state. On the other hand, he is probably going to hurt the Democrats downticket because turnout will be a bit higher for disaffected Republican leaning voters. Very good news for Obama, slightly bad news for Tim Kaine. > [@RickJay](#): > > Does Goode actually have a hope of winning that many votes? > > I mean, it’s not inconceivable that among non-Goode (ha) voters, Romney could stage a comeback and win 51-49. Is Virgil Goode actually going to win two percent of the vote in a state voters know is ultra-tight? Unless he’s polling at 4-5% at LEAST, I’d say no. He has polled as high as 9% but thats probably an outlier. He had been more realistically polling at about 4%. If Goode takes away even 2% of the vote from Romney, Virginia goes from a toos up state to a lean Obama state. Virginia Republicans have spent so much time and effort denouncing Goode as a spoiler that his support is dropping to 1 or 2%. > [@bengangmo](#): > > It’s for comments like this that Obama gets so much respect in the rest of the world. After Bush’s “shoot first and ask questions later” philosophy, I really like to see someone who espouses such an attitude - AND backs it up. > > If nothing else, we can be sure that whatever Obama’s response is, it will be well thought through He has international credibility (at least among our allies), so if he drone attacks someone, the presumption is going to be that he killed people that needed killing. > [@Andiethewestie](#): > > …the problem is this candidate chose to jump the President on the media release. And this is a critical point. He didn’t wait to see what Obama would say, he jumped on something a career foreign services bureaucrat said, pretended the comments were made after the attacks and attacked those words as if THAT was Obama’s reaction to the attacks. > [@](#): > > This can only work if he has all the information before him, and clearly he didn’t. Even then it doesn’t work very well. You can’t attack someone for something they haven’t said yet. Attributing the words of a consulate in Egypt as if they were uttered by Obama is fucking silly. > [@Chimera](#): > > Huntsman [weighs in](http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogsoutofcontext/54882749-64/huntsman-ambassador-republican-romney.html.csp) > > His entire statement: > > “This is a time when we all should reflect on those who continue to give, even the last measure, of service and sacrifice, to promoting and defending America’s interests abroad,” Huntsman added. “This is above all a reminder that politics should end at the waters edge.” For all his flaws, he has some serious foreign policy chops. He knows how much of a fuck-up this was on Romney’s part. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/155 "2012-09-17T15:16:06Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > **Obama knew where Osama bin laden was before the 2010 election, he chose to hold off** and kill ObL in the beginning of 2011 when it would have the least political impact for him (he could have done it before the 2010 election and staved off the crushing defeat in the house (which may have even let them maintain the majority, remember how many districts won by very thin margins) and so many state houses. Or he could have sat on ObL until after the Republican primary and just run away with the election. Why didn’t he do that? > **If he kills peopel with drones, he is going to make sure he kills the right people.** His track record on foreign policy and national security has earned him the benefit of the doubt on all these fronts. (emphasis added) > [@](#): > > If he knew about terrrorist camps, he would have taken them out already. he’s not saving a bunch for a rainy day. As you yourself noted (see bolded portions of first quote), “knows” is a continuum of certainty, not a binary value. In this case, the obvious terrorist planning in the main assault (as opposed to the angry-mob diversion) greatly increases the confidence that the targets that look like terrorist camps and smell like terrorist camps are, in fact, terrorist camps. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/156 "2012-09-17T15:20:17Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > He had no way of knowing it was a tragedy when he first made his statements He knew someone was dead. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/157 "2012-09-17T15:25:36Z")
Nobody knew for certain where bin Laden was in October 2010. Even at the time of the raid, it was not 100% sure. Obama could have tried the raid before the 2010 election, but it would have given the Seals less time to prepare for and rehearse the raid. The political considerations did not and should not have entered into the equation. Actually, if the raid had taken place in October 2010 and had failed, it would have made the midterm losses even worse. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511/158 "2012-09-17T20:43:26Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > (emphasis added) > > As you yourself noted (see bolded portions of first quote), “knows” is a continuum of certainty, not a binary value. In this case, the obvious terrorist planning in the main assault (as opposed to the angry-mob diversion) greatly increases the confidence that the targets that look like terrorist camps and smell like terrorist camps are, in fact, terrorist camps. You’re right but my point is that he isn’t going to bomb a bunch of people to try and score political points. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > Nobody knew for certain where bin Laden was in October 2010. Even at the time of the raid, it was not 100% sure. Obama could have tried the raid before the 2010 election, but it would have given the Seals less time to prepare for and rehearse the raid. The political considerations did not and should not have entered into the equation. Actually, if the raid had taken place in October 2010 and had failed, it would have made the midterm losses even worse. I don’t think we had much more certitude in 2011 than we did in 2010 but I could be wrong. And frankly the seals are trained to go on these sort of missions on VERY short notice. Its what they do. But Obama wanted to virtually eliminate the chances of any casualties so they created a mock up and practiced doing what they are already very very good at doing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/libyan-killing-of-ambassador-and-staff-how-will-this-play-out-in-election/634511.md?page=7)