# Licences **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 12, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/licences/499563 "2009-06-12T16:30:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/licences/499563/41 "2009-06-13T15:56:36Z")
> [@](#): > > They just assume that almost everyone will watch TV. If you don’t buy a licence, you will get a letter from the BBC asking to confirm that you don’t have a TV. If they are not satisfied with your answer, they will send a man around, who will ask very politely to be let in so he can see your lack of a TV set for himself. What about someone like me? I have a TV but I haven’t watched a broadcast show since sometime last year. I just used it to watch DVD’s (ironically including some BBC shows). Would I be liable for a license in the UK? ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/licences/499563/42 "2009-06-13T16:02:56Z")
> [@NineToTheSky](#): > > For me, it’s worth paying the license fee to not to have to sit through all those adverts. Yes, and me. Especially those fucking annoying car insurance ads of which [Confused.com](http://Confused.com) must be the most irritating. Smug looking bastards and that tinkly music is driving me nuts. Must confess I never looked at the need for a fishing licence in quite the same way as has been explained upthread. **Little Nemo** Yes you would unless you could prove that your TV was incapable of receiving TV programmes ---
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/licences/499563/43 "2009-06-13T16:27:22Z")
> [@chowder](#): > > Yes, and me. > > Especially those fucking annoying car insurance ads of which [Confused.com](http://Confused.com) must be the most irritating. Smug looking bastards and that tinkly music is driving me nuts. The ones that really get to me are those advertising women’s cosmetic products that are peppered with pseudo-scientific mumbo-jumbo.‘Its formula combines Pro-Retinol and Par-Elastyl™’. Whoo-fucking-pee. I was in a supermarket this morning, and I saw a men’s grooming product that simply said: ‘free from gunk’. That’s all I need to know. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/licences/499563/44 "2009-06-13T16:34:07Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > What about someone like me? I have a TV but I haven’t watched a broadcast show since sometime last year. I just used it to watch DVD’s (ironically including some BBC shows). Would I be liable for a license in the UK? The licence is required if you watch or record TV at the time that it is broadcast (by any means, including via the internet). You don’t need a licence merely to own a TV, or to watch recordings of TV that others have made (tapes, DVDs, internet videos). Should the matter be taken to court, you wouldn’t _have_ to prove anything, of course. But it would severely hurt your case if the BBC could persuade the court that you had a TV or recording device already set up to receive TV. That is what their inspectors are looking for. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/licences/499563/45 "2009-06-13T16:54:48Z")
Students can get away with it by simply keeping their permenent address as their parents, and be covered by mum and dad’s licence. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/licences/499563/46 "2009-06-13T18:22:37Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > I first learned about the whole UK’s TV license from a great episode of **The Young Ones** MTV first broadcast in the mid-eighties! So did I. [Here it is.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn1Y7nhB16U) ---
**Author:** ![dwc1970](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a183cd/32.png) [@dwc1970](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dwc1970)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/licences/499563/47 "2009-06-13T18:24:19Z")
What’s the penalty for failing to have a licensed television? Do they have the right to even enter your home with or without probable cause? Can they confiscate your TV if you are not licensed? Do they make you pay a fine? How many people put up tinfoil or other barriers to prevent detection from the vans that scan for RFI? (I imagine this practice itself is illegal) Also, if you sell a TV, does the license go with it or does the new owner have to procure his own license? Do stores that sell TVs have to have licenses to display programming, or do they just not turn them on to circumvent licensing requirements? ---
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/licences/499563/48 "2009-06-13T18:30:02Z")
> [@dwc1970](#): > > What’s the penalty for failing to have a licensed television? Do they have the right to even enter your home with or without probable cause? Can they confiscate your TV if you are not licensed? Do they make you pay a fine? How many people put up tinfoil or other barriers to prevent detection from the vans that scan for RFI? (I imagine this practice itself is illegal) > > Also, if you sell a TV, does the license go with it or does the new owner have to procure his own license? > > Do stores that sell TVs have to have licenses to display programming, or do they just not turn them on to circumvent licensing requirements? When you buy a TV, the store is legally obliged to record your name and address, which is forwarded to the relevant authority. The license is tied to a particular address, so wherever you use a TV has to have a license for that address. The penalty for defaulting is a fine of up to £1000. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/licences/499563/49 "2009-06-13T18:47:29Z")
> [@dwc1970](#): > > What’s the penalty for failing to have a licensed television? Do they have the right to even enter your home with or without probable cause? Can they confiscate your TV if you are not licensed? Do they make you pay a fine? How many people put up tinfoil or other barriers to prevent detection from the vans that scan for RFI? (I imagine this practice itself is illegal) > > Also, if you sell a TV, does the license go with it or does the new owner have to procure his own license? They have no right to enter your home, although the inspectors do sometimes try to get themselves invited in. The detector vans/hand-held units were more for show than actually detecting signals. I’ve never seen one, and rumour has it that they drove around in a small fleet of vans that looked the part but contained no actual TV-detecting equipment. They have long relied on the simple assumption that everybody watches TV, so all they need is a list of addresses, and a list of licence holders. If you’re on list A but not on list B, you’re a suspect. As for registering addresses, I have bought TVs from a few big-name retailers without being asked for any proof of address, so I don’t think it’s rigidly enforced. You might be thinking, “but surely that makes it very easy to avoid paying the fee? Just don’t let strangers into your home.” Indeed. It’s to some extent a trust-based system, like paying for newspapers out of those street dispensers. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/licences/499563/50 "2009-06-13T18:58:17Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > As for registering addresses, I have bought TVs from a few big-name retailers without being asked for any proof of address, so I don’t think it’s rigidly enforced. > \*\* That’s interesting. I used to work for a major UK retailer, and, at the till, if you didn’t enter in a name and address, the transaction wouldn’t complete. We were told that this was because it was a legal obligation to enter those details. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/licences/499563/51 "2009-06-13T19:16:19Z")
> [@NineToTheSky](#): > > That’s interesting. I used to work for a major UK retailer, and, at the till, if you didn’t enter in a name and address, the transaction wouldn’t complete. We were told that this was because it was a legal obligation to enter those details. Oh, I think I was asked for a name and address, on at least one occasion. But I’m a bit paranoid about giving it out (fear of junk mail), so I gave my usual “Derek Smalls, Acacia Avenue” rubbish, and nobody batted an eyelid. ---
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/licences/499563/52 "2009-06-13T19:19:59Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > Oh, I think I was asked for a name and address, on at least one occasion. But I’m a bit paranoid about giving it out (fear of junk mail), so I gave my usual “Derek Smalls, Acacia Avenue” rubbish, and nobody batted an eyelid. We, of course, had no way of knowing if the details given were genuine, but if I had been given yours, I think I would have raised an eyebrow and asked if you went up to 11. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/licences/499563/53 "2009-06-13T19:58:25Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > What about someone like me? I have a TV but I haven’t watched a broadcast show since sometime last year. I just used it to watch DVD’s (ironically including some BBC shows). Would I be liable for a license in the UK? A friend of mine has several TVs, but never watches any broadcast content and therefore does not have a TV licence. He still gets reminders/threats from the licensing authority and has to keep writing to them reassure them that his TV apparatus has been rendered unable to receive broadcast signals (in his particular case, this consists of de-tuning all of the channels and crushing the RF input sockets, although I’m not sure he actually needed to perform these steps). According to him, they accept his explanation on any given occasion, but don’t stop asking again and again. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/licences/499563/54 "2009-06-13T23:59:48Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > They have no right to enter your home, although the inspectors do sometimes try to get themselves invited in. The detector vans/hand-held units were more for show than actually detecting signals. I’ve never seen one, and rumour has it that they drove around in a small fleet of vans that looked the part but contained no actual TV-detecting equipment. They have long relied on the simple assumption that everybody watches TV, so all they need is a list of addresses, and a list of licence holders. If you’re on list A but not on list B, you’re a suspect. > \*\* Now this is the sort of thing that I would have a real problem with. Even though our US taxes do support public broadcasting as mentioned before, it comes out of the general tax fund. Many things we have no personal control over come out of the general taxes. To also pay for a separate enforcement agency to patrol and check for compliance just seems very inefficient. Doesn’t the enforcement cost more than is collected to benefit the program? It seems to me that it would be better if the whole BBC support disappeared into the general fund and the need for any enforcement of TV tax could be eliminated. I have no problem with licencing fees that pertain to things I use. Like fees for hunting, fishing, using the park system, because these funds are directed to support the programs that benefit from the fees. I pay more if I use the programs and don’t if I don’t use them. It’s a bit more of a choice as to where an individual directs voluntary taxes. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/licences/499563/55 "2009-06-14T01:04:52Z")
> [@NineToTheSky](#): > > Personally, I think the TV license is a great deal. For that, we get to watch, listen to and read the BBC, which has, indisputably, the finest TV programming in the world, with no adverts. > > When TV started in the UK after WW2, we had one channel, BBC. It was, and is, funded through the license fee, currently £142 p.a. > > In the mid '50s, a second, commercial channel (ITV) started. In the late sixties, the BBC added another channel (imaginatively named BBC2). In 1982, we got another commercial channel, Channel 4, followed in 1997 by Channel 5 (you see the exciting pattern here of naming channels?) Despite these channels being funded by advertising, the license fee still has to be paid. > > The license fee pays for four BBC TV channels, many local and national radio stations, their web sites, and a whole lot more. All of which are leaders in their respective fields, and paragons of quality. > > ETA: your license covers all the TVs in your home. > And you still need a license if you’re blind. It is half price, though. Is this a joke? So your approximately $275 per year fee gives you four whole TV stations, radio stations, complete with web sites? Along with the gestapo to attempt to enforce this scheme? And you like this idea? What about the poor who can’t afford the license fee? No TV for them? What if I travel to London on business and stay in a hotel? Do I need to pay the fee or does the hotel? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/licences/499563/56 "2009-06-14T01:12:32Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Is this a joke? So your approximately $275 per year fee gives you four whole TV stations… How many can you watch, at once? Also: quantity is meaningless without quality. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/licences/499563/57 "2009-06-14T01:48:54Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Is this a joke? So your approximately $275 per year fee gives you four whole TV stations, radio stations, complete with web sites? Along with the gestapo to attempt to enforce this scheme? And you like this idea? > > What about the poor who can’t afford the license fee? No TV for them? What if I travel to London on business and stay in a hotel? Do I need to pay the fee or does the hotel? No it is a complete hellhole here: it’s just State propaganda all the time. We are all afraid to speak out lest we end up in one of the many re-education camps under our ever watchful Big Brother camera eyes and are made to pay tax towards our new Muslim overlords. So I guess you wouldn’t like it here **jtgain** even although you are clearly well-travelled. Help! Or in other words, fuck off with throwing around the word “gestapo”, and the implications thereof, about things you have no clue about. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/licences/499563/58 "2009-06-14T02:16:12Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Is this a joke? So your approximately $275 per year fee gives you four whole TV stations, radio stations, complete with web sites? Along with the gestapo to attempt to enforce this scheme? And you like this idea? > > What about the poor who can’t afford the license fee? No TV for them? What if I travel to London on business and stay in a hotel? Do I need to pay the fee or does the hotel? What it all boils down to is the idea that, left to our own devices, we don’t actually get the TV that we ideally want. British people look at what is available free-to-air in the US and decide that our system of, in effect, mandatory subscription to a non-commercial network, the BBC, is preferable. The big criticism of the US system is the amount of commercials. We do have commercial channels here, and the usual array of cable/satellite channels, but we are still slightly taken aback by American practices such as commercial breaks between the title sequence and the actual programme. Personally I think we overstate how bad American TV is. We stay at a motel in Florida that only has basic cable, and conclude that TV over there is “all commercials”. We tend to overlook the fact that many of the best programmes on British TV are American. But anyway, there is clearly a demand for commercial-free TV, and the only other way to pay for TV is subscription. Until fairly recently, the only viable way to have subscription TV was a legally mandated system such as the BBC licence fee. The downside of such as system is that everybody must pay, regardless of whether they want to watch the BBC channels, hence the “Gestapo”, as you so exaggeratedly call them. Of course, nowadays it is technically feasible to have a subscription system that excludes non-payers, and commercial-free TV channels such as HBO have proven financially viable. To my mind, this makes the BBC licence fee much less justifiable. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/licences/499563/59 "2009-06-14T03:01:10Z")
> [@Struan](#): > > No it is a complete hellhole here: it’s just State propaganda all the time. We are all afraid to speak out lest we end up in one of the many re-education camps under our ever watchful Big Brother camera eyes and are made to pay tax towards our new Muslim overlords. So I guess you wouldn’t like it here **jtgain** even although you are clearly well-travelled. Help! > > Or in other words, fuck off with throwing around the word “gestapo”, and the implications thereof, about things you have no clue about. I guess I’m not that well-travelled. I know that a $275 fee in the US would cause a peasants’ riot. Look at the analog switch that the government provided free $50 boxes for. 700 thousand calls today alone after 5 years of notice. “How dare the government take away what was FREE!?” they ask, when they really didn’t take squat away if anyone would watch the news. None of you answered my question: what about the poor who can’t afford the fee? No TV for them? Or is there a government welfare program? What about vacationers? Do I have to purchase a license at the airport? You had basic TV at a Florida hotel? That is what most hotels have. Most homes have extended cable or satellite coverage; many more channels.. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/licences/499563/60 "2009-06-14T03:09:27Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > What about vacationers? Do I have to purchase a license at the airport? According to previous posts in this thread, the license is issued to a location, not to a person. It seems to me that a hotel would have to pay the license fee for the televisions on its premises. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/licences/499563.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/licences/499563.md?page=4)