# License plate readers and privacy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 2, 2019, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/license-plate-readers-and-privacy/841159 "2019-10-02T16:44:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/license-plate-readers-and-privacy/841159/41 "2019-10-08T21:06:37Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > You have no reasonable expectation of privacy when you drive around on the streets with a big identification number on the car. The computers are simply doing what a policeman with a notebook could do, and have done for decades. It is a change of scale, but not of type. That’s the whole point. What was impractical or very limited (or too expensive) when done manually with old tech, now is suddenly trivial and ubiquitous. Film used to be expensive, slow, and had to be processed and then scanned manually for details. Today, computers can record 24-7 in unlimited numbers, isolate licenses, faces, and many other details and correlate all these things automagically. 3 shifts of policemen tailing a car is replaced by a GPS device that can’t be shaken. A stake-out can be replaced by a motion-activated surveillance camera. Etc. Add to that, many of these activities, like LPR databases, belong to private companies so are not bound by rules about government warrant restrictions. I don’t have a problem with police or security trolling parking lots for stolen cars. I d object to the data being stored for 2 years or longer, searchable, to build up a list of where I go for a year or more. Unless they can tell a judge why they need this, before the data starts getting collected, it’s none of their business. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/license-plate-readers-and-privacy/841159/42 "2019-10-08T22:16:42Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > You drive a car at the pleasure of the government. You’re required to register and license the vehicle and you’re required to procure a driver’s license. It seems to me the government has every right to check on the license plate that they issued for any number of reasons – expired tags, license on wrong vehicle (e.g. if a thief swapped some plates to avoid detection), warrant out on vehicle or owner, etc. That you see it as their trying to track your whereabouts sounds somewhat paranoid to me. If it really bothers you, you’re free to walk, take mass transit, or hire a ride (cab, Uber, etc.). This is a dated way of considering the issue, and technology change is so important here that it can completely change the important issues. Suppose a state decides to raise funds by allowing anybody with a credit card to enter a tag number and get a list of timestamped locations for the past year. Would that change your statement? I’m not free to walk, take mass transit, or hire a ride. I live miles from anyplace and I’m too old to hike 30 miles a day to keep my job. There’s no mass transit here and I don’t think we can even get cabs. Airport shuttles, yes, but I don’t know if that would facilitate living a typical life in rural America that practically requires automobile use to participate in the adult world. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/license-plate-readers-and-privacy/841159/43 "2019-10-09T09:49:19Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > You have no reasonable expectation of privacy when you drive around on the streets with a big identification number on the car. The computers are simply doing what a policeman with a notebook could do, and have done for decades. It is a change of scale, but not of type. In fact, this was done years ago – just not by police. A casino in Atlantic City hired ‘spotters’ who sat by highways with binoculars and recorded license plate numbers of customers of other casinos. Then the casino bought the name & address of the owners (back then, anybody with cash could buy that info) and used it to mail coupons & special offers to try to get those gamblers to switch to their casino. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/license-plate-readers-and-privacy/841159/44 "2019-10-09T16:58:23Z")
Are there laws that tags must be displayed on parked vehicles that aren’t parked illegally? There are plate frames that can [hide your plate](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRFM4sFSKH8) with the push of a button. What if I’m just ultra-paranoid and remove my plates when I park and store them in the trunk? ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/license-plate-readers-and-privacy/841159/45 "2019-10-09T18:02:34Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > Are there laws that tags must be displayed on parked vehicles that aren’t parked illegally? There are plate frames that can [hide your plate](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRFM4sFSKH8) with the push of a button. > > What if I’m just ultra-paranoid and remove my plates when I park and store them in the trunk? If it’s parked on the street, most likely the plate must be displayed. From NYS: > [@](#): > > 1. (a) No person shall operate, drive or park a motor vehicle on the public highways of this state unless such vehicle shall have a distinctive number assigned to it by the commissioner and a set of number plates issued by the commissioner with a number and other identification matter if any, corresponding to that of the certificate of registration conspicuously displayed … ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/license-plate-readers-and-privacy/841159/46 "2019-10-09T18:08:42Z")
Along the same lines, the Reagan administration way back when proposed another category of secret. A single fact may not be secret, or private - but a computerized list of a large collection of such data should be considered secret. For example, knowing Bob next door works for the local police - may happen. Having a complete list of all the members of the police -or FBI, or CIA, or NSA, or Secret Service - should not be publicly available or passed around. Adding computerization is more than just a change of medium. It takes the value of such data to a while new level. ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/license-plate-readers-and-privacy/841159/47 "2019-10-09T19:15:58Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > If it’s parked on the street, most likely the plate must be displayed. I had some cars in storage while I was away at school. The cars were not parked on the street. They had plates but I let the registration expire since I wasn’t driving them. I returned home to a pile of unregistered plates and nuisance vehicle tickets. Apparently cars visible from a public way can be inspected. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/license-plate-readers-and-privacy/841159/48 "2019-10-09T20:10:21Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > I have been unable to find a SCOTUS decision on this, but this year the [Virginia Supreme Court](https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/04/victory-fairfax-virginia-judge-finds-local-police-use-alpr-violates-states-data) ruled that local police can’t “passively collect data on people who aren’t suspected of criminal activity.” Your cite is for one county in Virginia and it pertains to following a specific Virginia statute not a broad constitutional issue. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/license-plate-readers-and-privacy/841159/49 "2019-10-16T16:05:01Z")
More databases to search - [Philly](https://www.phillymag.com/news/2019/10/09/plate-parking-kiosks/) is going towards parking meters by license plate. Now, not only will ‘they’ know where you drive, but where you park. They’re also basically forcing your to pay either by card or their app as the new machines won’t have the ability to take bills, only coins so you’ll either need to pay by a traceable source or carry around pounds of coinage. Not exactly user friendly for a city with so much tourism; I doubt out of towners will download an app for one time use & I hate putting piddly little charges on a credit card. ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2019, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/license-plate-readers-and-privacy/841159/50 "2019-10-27T23:39:54Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > More databases to search - [Philly](https://www.phillymag.com/news/2019/10/09/plate-parking-kiosks/) is going towards parking meters by license plate. Now, not only will ‘they’ know where you drive, but where you park. > > They’re also basically forcing your to pay either by card or their app as the new machines won’t have the ability to take bills, only coins so you’ll either need to pay by a traceable source or carry around pounds of coinage. Not exactly user friendly for a city with so much tourism; I doubt out of towners will download an app for one time use & I hate putting piddly little charges on a credit card. Sorry for reviving a semi-zombie… This particular system has been going on for years both in the Netherlands and in Spain. In NL, you can go to the machine, and there you have to input your license plate number and then pay with a bank/credit card. You can pay, alternatively, via smartphone app, which is linked to your car license plate and your bank account for charging. The app is valid country-wide. For tourists, they sell paycards at the tobacconists that can be charged with money, and then you can use the machine in the standard way. In Spain, roughly the same thing, although there I have not seen apps that would be valid countrywide. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/license-plate-readers-and-privacy/841159.md?page=2)