# license to kill **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 27, 2000, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/license-to-kill/27024 "2000-07-27T07:07:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![darkcool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@darkcool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/darkcool)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2000, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/license-to-kill/27024/1 "2000-07-27T07:07:56Z")
I know James Bond is fiction, but does anyone (or organization) have a ‘license to kill’? ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2000, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/license-to-kill/27024/2 "2000-07-27T07:13:15Z")
Does a fishing or hunting license count? Or are we only talking people? ---
**Author:** ![tcburnett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@tcburnett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tcburnett)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2000, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/license-to-kill/27024/3 "2000-07-27T09:10:45Z")
That’s cute…I posted a whole page of information about this right in this thread, but it never appeared. Maybe the information I gave was too detailed. ---
**Author:** ![tcburnett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@tcburnett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tcburnett)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2000, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/license-to-kill/27024/4 "2000-07-27T09:53:04Z")
The NAME JAmes Bond is fiction as well as the glamor associated with the job. But the fact is that ANY government, corporation, crime syndicate or individual can hit someone as long as they don’t get caught. MANY governments have departments that deal with assassinations. The US denies that we do that sort of thing anymore, but don’t bet your life on it. Today however, most major governments hire contract labor so they have plausible deniability. The other game is to hit someone and make it look like another government did it. That’s why dozens of assassinations during the 70s were attributed to the Mossad (who are still very active in the Mokrie Dela (sp) department). Private contractors work for whoever is willing to pay the tab. On occasion they have religious or idealistic motives. The religious zealots can be given a little training, false ID and a key for an apartment where they can pick up their equipment. They are generally expendable. People Like Illich Ramirez Sanchez (Carlos the Jackel) do it for a combination of idealism and cash. It is a sign of prestiege to have a secret intelligence service with the ability to kill people for the politicians of a country. ---
**Author:** ![tcburnett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@tcburnett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tcburnett)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2000, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/license-to-kill/27024/5 "2000-07-27T09:59:34Z")
The only way to really assure success with a government contract is to make sure the support necessary for you to work and escape is in place. The US is notorious for leaving agents ‘out in the cold’ to get killed. The USSR tries much harder to get its agents out. The Mossad has only lost one assassination that I am aware of. They get their teams in and out. Other countries run teams, but all of the governments involved usually try to cover it all up. Quid-pro-quo, you know. ---
**Author:** ![Phobos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Phobos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phobos)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2000, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/license-to-kill/27024/6 "2000-07-27T12:35:23Z")
I would suspect (hope) that even the James Bond types don’t have a license to kill indiscriminately…just for specific missions. Governments certainly condone murder in certain circumstances…as evidenced by every war. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2000, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/license-to-kill/27024/7 "2000-07-27T13:13:20Z")
The “license to kill” routine was always a little funny. It meant that the British Government would not prosecute or pursue a double-0 agent for murdering someone in the course of duty. However, it was always clear (in the books, at least) that James Bond was NOT authorized to do ANY espionage work in the U.K. itself. So, what authority would the British Government have had? In the opening chapter of GOLDFINGER, he kills drug dealers in Mexico, but then has to get the hell out of the country, since if the MEXICAN government caught him, they presumably did not necessarily recognize the British government’s licensing. Later in GOLDFINGER, he kills people in the U.S. … but there seems to be a cooperation between the CIA or FBI and the British secret service, so that U.S. legal authorities conveniently overlook a variety of felonies. I have to think that this is a wonderful fiction. BTW, we’ve talked here about governments, but it should be noted that organizations like the PLO never hesitated to pull off terrorist acts (including mass murders of innocents) and claim “credit.” Mossad, like any similar covert activity of other democracies, focuses on specific enemy agent targets. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2000, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/license-to-kill/27024/8 "2000-07-27T15:42:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tcburnett \* > **The US denies that we do that sort of thing anymore, but don’t bet your life on it.** We don’t even know if the order banning assassination is still in effect. It is based on Executive Orders issued in 1976 and 1981. There could just as easily have been another Executive Order since then (a secret one, of which there have been many), overturning these two. We have no way of knowing. > [@](#): > > Executive order 12333, signed by President Ronald Reagan in 1981, reads in section 2.11 that “no person, employed by or acting on behalf of the United States Government, shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, assassination.” The original version was signed in 1976 by President Gerald R. Ford in the wake of public disclosure in 1975 that the CIA, with White House support, had attempted assassinations in the 1950s and 1960s of Cuban President Fidel Castro and leaders in the Congo and the Dominican Republic. > > Although the order has the force of law and applies to members of the executive branch of the government, no criminal penalties automatically attach to its violation, and any punishment would be at the prerogative of the president. source: [Washington Post](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/longterm/iraq/stories/saddam021598.htm) ---
**Author:** ![CandyMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5e925/32.png) [@CandyMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandyMan)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2000, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/license-to-kill/27024/9 "2000-07-27T16:28:01Z")
James Bond basically just had the OK of the British Goverment (in the novels, mind you) to use deadly force if he decided it was needed. That is all his license meant. CandyMan ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2000, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/license-to-kill/27024/10 "2000-07-27T23:35:22Z")
I recall seeing a story, possibly on 60 minutes, about the soldiers who guard nuclear missiles while they are being moved. The program stated something to the effect that they temporarily were immune from any prosecution either from the military or civil authorities if they killed anyone while performing their duties. This was quite a few years ago that I saw this. I would think that shooting someone who was trying to steal your missile wouldn’t be considered murder anyway. ---
**Author:** ![tcburnett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@tcburnett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tcburnett)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2000, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/license-to-kill/27024/11 "2000-07-28T00:35:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CKDextHavn \* > **…it should be noted that organizations like the PLO never hesitated to pull off terrorist acts (including mass murders of innocents) and claim "credit."** [Hijack to terrorist groups] [http://www.specialoperations.com/Terrorism/Terrorist\_Groups/Default.htm](http://www.specialoperations.com/Terrorism/Terrorist_Groups/Default.htm) [/Hijack to terrorist groups] ---
**Author:** ![jb\_farley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9d8465/32.png) [@jb\_farley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jb_farley)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2000, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/license-to-kill/27024/12 "2000-07-28T00:48:10Z")
is the Area 51 deadly force authorization an example of L2k? ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2000, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/license-to-kill/27024/13 "2000-07-28T00:59:49Z")
No, that is an example of “Do not come onto this military base or you will be shot” Any military base can do this. A couple years ago, the Tampa Police Department was chasing a stolen car. The driver was wanted on other things as well. Anyway, the idiot was fleeing south on a major highway that dead ends at the entrance to Mac Dill Air Force Base. He was not planning to stop. The MPs, shot him as he rammed the gate. The military does not let trespassers on their bases. Shit, you could be driving a car bomb for all they know. If you fail to hault at the gate, you could be shot. That goes for any base. Especially those hiding aliens and top secret government conspiracies… ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2000, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/license-to-kill/27024/14 "2000-07-28T01:25:30Z")
Back in the 1960’s during the Apollo missions, a law was passed that gave the federal government the authority to intern anyone who had come into contact with an alien organism. Ostensibly, it was so that if some lunar microbe was brought back, people exposed to it could be quarantined. But the application to possible ET meetings is ominous. ---
**Author:** ![tcburnett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@tcburnett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tcburnett)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2000, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/license-to-kill/27024/15 "2000-07-28T02:00:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jb\_farley \* > \*\*is the Area 51 deadly force authorization an example of L2k? \*\* L2K is just a phrase which isn’t used to describe the duties of an assassin. The buzzwords of the 60s and 70s were ‘extreme prejudice’ and ‘sanction’ as well as the ever-popular ‘contract’. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2000, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/license-to-kill/27024/16 "2000-07-28T03:48:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tcburnett \* > \*\* Today however, most major governments hire contract labor so they have plausible deniability. \*\* Given the bit you’ve revealed about your background I’d be inclined to believe you re these issues, but it really does stretch my credulity to believe that any US government entity with the power to order an assassination would sub-contract it out to potential loose cannons like mercenaries for hire. Do you any cites for anyone being caught doing this or have all these operations gone off like well oiled machinery like all sub-contracted government operations do? Yes…yes, I know, if you told me you’d have kill me. That’d show me… Ding Dong… er Girl Scout cookies…er Census Taker…er Candygram. Candygram OK! Hey that’s not candy! Brrraaappppp! Blam! Blam! Biff! Pow! Crunch! Arrrgggghh…Gasp! Cough! Never should have doubted tcburnett. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2000, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/license-to-kill/27024/17 "2000-07-28T04:29:54Z")
> [@](#): > > but it really does stretch my credulity to believe that any US government entity with the power to order an assassination would sub-contract it out to potential loose cannons like mercenaries for hire. Think about it this way: You’re President Clinton. You decide to assassinate someone who has knowledge of that torrid affair between you, Janet Reno, and Ted Kennedy ;). However, the assassination goes wrong: an off-duty cop is nearby and shoots your killer. If the guy is just some hired thug who can’t be linked to you, then nobody has any reason to believe that it wasn’t just a random robbery. If the killer was CIA Special Agent Johnson, however, then you’ve got slightly bigger problems… ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2000, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/license-to-kill/27024/18 "2000-07-28T04:54:38Z")
Doesn’t every private in the U.S. Army have a “license to kill,” as long as they’re killing under proper orders? No one in the gov’t has a license to kill on their own disgression, say if somebody pisses them off in the supermarket. Thus the phrase “License to kill” is meaningless. Ian Fleming probably thought it up because it sounded cool. In reality the gov’t decides what killing is legal (executions, acts of war, justified deadly force, etc.) and what isn’t ---
**Author:** ![tcburnett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@tcburnett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tcburnett)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2000, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/license-to-kill/27024/19 "2000-07-28T04:59:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by astro \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by tcburnett \* > > \*\* Today however, most major governments hire contract labor so they have plausible deniability. \*\* > > Arrrgggghh…Gasp! Cough! Never should have doubted tcburnett. \*\* I’ll provide a list of books you may read if you like. It’s authors are US CIA agents but similar books have been published in several countries. Assassins for hire are usually not loose cannons. The US likes active or ex-military people. Britain likes SAS types. Israel uses the most unlikely people imaginable for assassinations on foreign soil. But the interested government will take what it can get. Read about the CIA hiring the Mafia to kill Fidel Castro. It failed, but they tried. Yep, I have a cite for a botched Mossad hit. When Gerald Bull was covertly building the Super-Cannon for Saddam Hussein they messed it up the first time. They were eventually successful. I can prove it to you much more easily than that. YOU CAN DO IT YOURSELF! Here is a link. If you can deliver this person, dead or alive, to a US agent anywhere in the world under any circumstances, you will get the reward. Guaranteed. The ‘plausible deniability’ part of it is that the reward offered specifically says ‘information leading to arrest and conviction’. But the media will be told whatever bullshit that fits and your name will never be used…You call it what you like, but you would be killing someone for pay and you would be working for the US government. And you would get away with it. AND, you wouldn’t have to pay tax on it. Now get out there and make us some money! [http://www.heroes.net/binladen.html](http://www.heroes.net/binladen.html) here’s another one: [http://www.sis.gov.eg/wanted/html/wanted.htm](http://www.sis.gov.eg/wanted/html/wanted.htm) REFERENCES:CIA–MEMOIRS OF FORMER DIRECTORS & EMPLOYEES “Inside the Company.” Philip Agee, 1978, Penguin Books. “On the Run.” Philip Agee, 1987, Lyle Stuart. “Deadly Deceits: My 25 Years in the CIA.” Ralph Mcgehee, 1983,Sheridan Square. “The CIA under Reagan, Bush and Casey: The Evolution of the Agency from Roosevelt to Reagan.” Ray S. Cline, 1981, “Will: The Autobiography of G. Gordon Liddy.” 1981, St. Martins Press. “The Night Watch: My 25 Years of Peculiar Service.” David Atlee Phillips, 1977, Athenum “Portrait of a Cold Warrior.” Joseph Burkholder Smith, 1976, G.P. Putnam and Sons. The Death Merchant". Joseph C. Goulden, 1984, Bantam