# Lie down vs. lay down, and why my head may explode **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 14, 2025, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lie-down-vs-lay-down-and-why-my-head-may-explode/1022025 "2025-08-14T08:05:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2025, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lie-down-vs-lay-down-and-why-my-head-may-explode/1022025/81 "2025-08-16T17:20:53Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > No. No. It could be just a speech impediment. I wouldn’t understand "Trouble learning to speak " to be referring to a speech impediment . I’m not sure it always refers to severe brain damage either - I would certainly say a child who doesn’t say their first word until 2 years old had trouble learning to speak, but I’m not so sure that’s always a sign of severe brain damage. > [@RivkahChaya](#): > > when I was in elementary school (mid-1970s) reading aloud was done daily in our reading time, and came up sporadically enough in other ways that everyone could anticipate being asked to do it about 12 times a week, and required to 5 times if you did it well, more if you were struggling a bit. I was expected to read aloud some in grade school although not as often as 5 times a week. I could never understand the point of it for a couple of reasons. First, why were we reading aloud from whatever textbook in class ? If we were just going to read from the textbook, what was the point of attending class? Second, I could never figure out what, if anything, reading aloud was supposed to tell the teacher - I was always a very good reader, a few grades above grade level. I was also a very fast reader - which was a large part of the reason I (still) can’t read aloud well. I’m supposed to be reading the first line aloud and a word from the second or third line gets mixed in because my eyes are reading faster than my mouth can speak. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2025, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lie-down-vs-lay-down-and-why-my-head-may-explode/1022025/82 "2025-08-16T21:06:49Z")
Well ok. I have a severe stutter. Since my first words, If I’m to believe what I was told. Speech Therapy was a disaster for lots of reasons not related to speech, more fear. I’d say. Yeah it’s been difficult. Very difficult. Try practicing 3 days just to talk to your child’s teacher. Try laying in post-op and not being able to tell someone you’re in severe distress. Try talking to a policeman who’s asking questions. How about being embarrassed to show someone a card, that says “I do not speak.” And them screaming at you. Try breaking your hand and you can’t speak ASL correctly. As if there are many who care to try and understand. No, you’re right it is NOT brain damage. It’s a mechanical problem. Try telling that to people.(when you cannot speak) ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2025, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lie-down-vs-lay-down-and-why-my-head-may-explode/1022025/83 "2025-08-16T21:34:31Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > I was always a very good reader, a few grades above grade level. I was too. I was always in the “high” reading group, except for a week in an early grade, when I returned from being out for a long time after having strep. I had to attend my regular group, and the next group down for a week, because I was so far behind in the reader and the workbook. The differences were surprising. It wasn’t that the other group was just a little slower at reading long words. They would read each line of text separately, instead of reading sentences-- the teacher constantly reminded them to read to punctuation, and to try to take breaths at the commas and periods. The kids in my original group didn’t have to be told those things-- we just did them. We also had a better feel for which words to emphasize, and would use a question intonation when a sentence began with a wh-word-- another thing we were never told to do. I don’t think we were brighter-- I suspect we just had parents who read to us a lot. But reading aloud lets a teacher know who isn’t grasping things that contribute to making that inner voice that probably makes reading more enjoyable. It was pretty obvious that the kids in the “high” group were the ones always checking books out from the library after school, and reading during free time. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2025, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lie-down-vs-lay-down-and-why-my-head-may-explode/1022025/84 "2025-08-16T22:12:56Z")
I was a precocious reader. I read before I knew what it was. Nobody knew but me. My Daddy figured it out by watching me. Provided materials for me to read. I sat on his lap and watched him fill out crossword puzzles. He didn’t necessarily _read_ to us. But he told stories. Often gleaned from books he knew. Gave me curiosity. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2025, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lie-down-vs-lay-down-and-why-my-head-may-explode/1022025/85 "2025-08-17T00:06:22Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > I was a precocious reader. I read before I knew what it was. I was a precocious reader as well. A lot of things contributed, including a burning desire-- once when I was three, I took a book off my parents’ shelf, opened it to a random page, and started sobbing uncontrollably, because I couldn’t read it. Memorizing the picture books read to me, and studying them helped me to learn, but a huge boost was, and I am really not kidding, _The Electric Company._ I was watching TEC one day, and one of the skits gave me the sudden insight that each letter had its own sound-- when people talked about “sounding out” a word, they meant saying each letter’s sound in sequence. All I needed to do was figure out each letter’s sound, and I could read ANYTHING! Second insight, a few minutes later was what all those “A for Apple; B for Ball; C for Cat” books and posters were talking about. I was about four when this happened. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lie-down-vs-lay-down-and-why-my-head-may-explode/1022025/86 "2025-08-18T23:09:06Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > I am pretty sure all of us here, as well as all native and non-native students of English, are taught the difference between transitive and intransitive verbs. Absolutely not. I had excellent English teachers in high school (early ‘70s), but the focus wasn’t on advanced grammar. I know things like verb tenses better than most of my peers, but that’s because I learned those in French class. So I think to myself “Okay, I should say ‘If I WERE going to town’… **Vive _la Conditionnele!”_** (ditteau for _**l’Imperatif!)**_ ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lie-down-vs-lay-down-and-why-my-head-may-explode/1022025/87 "2025-08-18T23:23:34Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > But reading aloud lets a teacher know who isn’t grasping things that contribute to making that inner voice that probably makes reading more enjoyable. Kudos to anyone who has the patience to listen to someone struggling to read a sentence aloud, let alone a paragraph. I tutored adult “first-time readers”, some of whom had cognitive challenges. The saddest thing I’ve ever heard is when the head tutor said > _These students will never lose themselves in a book._ I can’t fathom the prospect of never leaving this world, even if its just to spend a couple of chapters in The Hundred Acre Woods or on the high seas or in Narnia. Imagine being stuck in real life! ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lie-down-vs-lay-down-and-why-my-head-may-explode/1022025/88 "2025-08-18T23:41:59Z")
> [@digs](#): > > I know things like verb tenses better than most of my peers, but that’s because I learned those in French class. Yes, you can’t assume native speakers are taught much, because there’s so much they aren’t taught , that they just pick up by speaking and hearing others speak. Was anybody taught the adjective order rule (and it’s exceptions) ? \* I know there were many things I didn’t learn until I started to study a foreign language in high school. And I’m 99% sure that the difference between transitive and intransitive verbs was one of them . Why would I need to learn the difference in my native language (other than to pass a test) - even a child learning to speak doesn’t mistakenly add a direct object to an intransitive verb. I did need to know the difference in Italian because the phrase often translated as “I like” (which requires a direct object in English) is better translated as " is pleasing to me" which requires an indirect object. \* 1. Quantity or number 2. Quality or opinion 3. Size 4. Age 5. Shape 6. Color 7. Proper adjective (often nationality, other place of origin, or material) 8. Purpose or qualifier When two adjectives from the same group are used, a comma or _and_ goes between them ( the red and green sweater , the smart , creative child) But we say " Big bad wolf " because of something to do with the vowels, _i_ comes before _a_ just like in chit chat, ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lie-down-vs-lay-down-and-why-my-head-may-explode/1022025/89 "2025-08-19T00:05:49Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > (and it’s exceptions) Its. No apostrophe. (Sorry.) ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lie-down-vs-lay-down-and-why-my-head-may-explode/1022025/90 "2025-08-19T00:09:34Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Its. No apostrophe. (Sorry.) Did you mean to say: Its. No apostrophe (sorry). Just trying to pick a nit from your picked nit (sorry). (Not sorry.) ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lie-down-vs-lay-down-and-why-my-head-may-explode/1022025/91 "2025-08-19T00:10:34Z")
I think you can do it either way, including the parenthetical or not. I believe either is acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lie-down-vs-lay-down-and-why-my-head-may-explode/1022025/92 "2025-08-19T00:11:55Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Imagine being stuck in real life! I mean, there are other ways of getting lost in a fictional world other than reading. I’m an English lit major, and there’s been years of my life I haven’t picked up a fiction book, but found myself immersed in cinema, theatre, music, etc. During those reading-less times, I didn’t feel like I was missing anything. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lie-down-vs-lay-down-and-why-my-head-may-explode/1022025/93 "2025-08-19T00:16:22Z")
Thank you so much! I’ve always felt sorry for that group of “guys” (all men in their 50s and 60s), but you’re right. I don’t know why I wouldn’t assume that they probably had a rich interior life and could get lost in a good movie/TV series (I guess because I’m an idiot). Seriously, that’s a weight off! ---
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lie-down-vs-lay-down-and-why-my-head-may-explode/1022025/94 "2025-08-19T00:17:36Z")
I only read non fiction. I dont want to get lost in it, I want to learn. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lie-down-vs-lay-down-and-why-my-head-may-explode/1022025/95 "2025-08-19T00:32:01Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > Was anybody taught the adjective order rule (and it’s exceptions) ? \* I know there were many things I didn’t learn until I started to study a foreign language in high school. Most of my deeper knowledge of English grammar comes from having to look up why we say things in a particular way in order to explain that to my students. I wasn’t aware that we had an order for adjectives until I saw a chart on a classroom wall. I’ve done language exchanges before with Japanese people and they have the same problem. They speak perfect Japanese but can’t explain the whys. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lie-down-vs-lay-down-and-why-my-head-may-explode/1022025/96 "2025-08-19T00:32:52Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > I can’t think of any other transitive/intransitive word pair that people confuse so much. They don’t say “set” for “sit,” or “raise” for “rise.” What is special about “lay” and “lie”? It doesn’t help that the past tense (if that’s the right term) of “lie” is “lay”. I will lie on the bed. He lay on the bed. He has lain on the bed. My speech annoyance is that suddenly the past tense of “pet” is now “pet”, not “petted”. ”I pet the dog” right now. ”I petTED the dog” yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lie-down-vs-lay-down-and-why-my-head-may-explode/1022025/97 "2025-08-19T00:34:22Z")
My sisters taught me to read when I was three. Or so I’ve been told – my earliest memories are from when I was four, so as far as I’m concerned I’ve _always_ known how. When I was in first or second grade – I can never remember which – I broke both wrists. The girl who was told to help me with writing was very puzzled that my workbook was already filled in and asked how I could do that with both arms in casts – I’d almost completed it in the first few weeks of school. One drawback to this is that I only remember ever having had one book read to me ( **He Went with Marco Polo** , by Louise Andrews Kent, which my fifth-grade teacher read to us in class), so I have about a twenty-second attention span when being read to now. > [@doreen](#): > > Was anybody taught the adjective order rule (and it’s exceptions) ? I was in my sixties before I ever heard of it. Probably here on the Dope. One thing I didn’t learn in grade school was the subjunctive – I first heard of that when the teacher explained it in my second-year German class. (Going from their reactions, none of the other kids knew about it either.) And when she was in junior high school my daughter asked me to get her some books on grammar, as she wasn’t being taught it in class. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lie-down-vs-lay-down-and-why-my-head-may-explode/1022025/98 "2025-08-19T00:36:47Z")
Yeah, so sad for the listener. So, sad. 🤨 How do think the reader feels? ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lie-down-vs-lay-down-and-why-my-head-may-explode/1022025/99 "2025-08-19T00:40:57Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > How do think the reader feels? Abject terror? I can only guess that they’re worried that everyone in the class is silently laughing at them… ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lie-down-vs-lay-down-and-why-my-head-may-explode/1022025/100 "2025-08-19T00:45:52Z")
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