# Lieberman Takes the Moral High Ground **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 7, 2004, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lieberman-takes-the-moral-high-ground/244042 "2004-05-07T17:45:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lieberman-takes-the-moral-high-ground/244042/21 "2004-05-07T19:13:07Z")
> [@Jonathan Chance](#): > > Nothing is accomplished by 2 guys throwing a hissy fit other than giving them something to feel good over later. Not quite true: two things are accomplished: 1. Righteous and right anger against the administration is safely vented into ineffective protest, instead of in an effective direction like voting or organizing voters; and 2. Conservatives who are on the fence about whether to chastise Rumsfeld get a slight nudge away from leftists. They make me proud! Daniel ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lieberman-takes-the-moral-high-ground/244042/22 "2004-05-07T19:14:30Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Can we trade them for McCain and a player to be named later? Can we get Goldwater back? You know, if you’d told the American Left 36 years ago that there would come a time when Goldwater would be a preferable choice over most current Republicans, they’d have laughed you out of the commune. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lieberman-takes-the-moral-high-ground/244042/23 "2004-05-07T19:16:21Z")
So, clarify this for me then. Is there no longer a place for protest in the political discourse? Is that what we are saying? Is the Left so fearful of the loony label that they should just quietly write stern letters to their representatives and to the editor? To me, it seems that there is inherent value is seeing other people vocally criticizing the government because it lets you know that you are not alone. But I don’t know, perhaps that is a relic of another time. If that is the case, I would love to hear what the folks that are angry about our current administration should be doing. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lieberman-takes-the-moral-high-ground/244042/24 "2004-05-07T19:20:50Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > This is the kind of shit you’d expect from a four-year-old on a playground. “Well, Jimmy didn’t apologize when he hit me, so why should I apologize for hitting Johnny?” It’s worse than that, it’s like “Well, Fred didn’t apologize when he hit me three years ago, so why should I apologize for hitting Johnny?” This the second time I’ve seen the torture of Iraqis justified by the action of SAUDIS on 9/11. Are they too stupid to tell the difference between people of two different countries? Christ, Lieberman is a fucking tool. Although I would have much preferred Gore as president, I can comfort myself a bit that Lieberman isn’t VP. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lieberman-takes-the-moral-high-ground/244042/25 "2004-05-07T19:21:12Z")
> [@Jonathan Chance](#): > > I gotta go with Lib on this one. > > Throwing a tantrum (and that’s all this was) is pointless. They’re not telling Rumsfeld anything he didn’t already know and they’re just reinforcing in his head that his opposition is just a bunch of snotty kids (that’s liable to be his impression, at least). > > Nothing is accomplished by 2 guys throwing a hissy fit other than giving them something to feel good over later. I’m going to disagree here. I think these people need to be constantly reminded of what a shitty job they’re doing. As long as it’s peaceful, and this was, I’m all for it. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lieberman-takes-the-moral-high-ground/244042/26 "2004-05-07T19:25:00Z")
Is there no room for political protest? of course not. However - a couple guys taken out of the room does not, IMHO, give **anyone** any warm comfy feelings of “oh, gosh, others aren’t happy, either”. protest wisely. remember that the publicity you get will last about 10 seconds, would you rather have it be of a couple guys with signs and pithy chants, or 10 second sound bite of a well thought out speech by a speaker in front of a crowd of thousands? ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lieberman-takes-the-moral-high-ground/244042/27 "2004-05-07T19:32:19Z")
> [@JuanitaTech](#): > > Does _anyone_ actually like Joe Lieberman? I hear he’s very popular with limp-wristed Republicans trying to appear open-minded. “Oh, if the Democrats had nominated Lieberman, I’d vote for him in an instant! But they’re going with that _ultra-liberal_ John Kerry, so I’ll have to be forced to vote for Bush instead.” :rolleyes: As for the OP, what do you expect from someone who thinks video games were the cause of the Columbine school shooting? :wally ---
**Author:** ![Uvula\_Donor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e19adc/32.png) [@Uvula\_Donor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uvula_Donor)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lieberman-takes-the-moral-high-ground/244042/28 "2004-05-07T19:39:28Z")
> [@JuanitaTech](#): > > Does _anyone_ actually like Joe Lieberman? Once upon a time he was a pretty good Attorney General here in Connecticut. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lieberman-takes-the-moral-high-ground/244042/29 "2004-05-07T19:47:30Z")
> [@wring](#): > > protest wisely. remember that the publicity you get will last about 10 seconds, would you rather have it be of a couple guys with signs and pithy chants, or 10 second sound bite of a well thought out speech by a speaker in front of a crowd of thousands? Is there some reason both can’t be done? What blue shirt did was on the news, and we’re sitting here talking about it. ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lieberman-takes-the-moral-high-ground/244042/30 "2004-05-07T19:53:36Z")
> [@wring](#): > > protest wisely. remember that the publicity you get will last about 10 seconds, would you rather have it be of a couple guys with signs and pithy chants, or 10 second sound bite of a well thought out speech by a speaker in front of a crowd of thousands? “Protest wisely”? What the fuck is that supposed to mean? That we should cheer on Madeleine Albright when she speaks at the March for Women’s Lives and leave it at that? No, thanks. Any opportunity we can get to directly rattle the cages of fuckknuckles like Rumsfeld should be taken advantage of. It won’t immediately accomplish the goal of getting either him or his boss fired, for sure, but then again marathons aren’t run in one single step. Sure, we may only get 10 seconds of publicity today (although the [clip](http://www.wreg.com/Global/story.asp?S=1849112&nav=3HvDMw2p) here shows we got almost a minute) but there’s another chance tomorrow, and the day after that, and so on. It all begins to add up, sooner or later. **Left Hand** , people like us aren’t trying to reach the on-the-fence conservatives, we’re trying to reach the people who _know_ they’re disgusted with Rumsfeld. There’s a lot more of us than there are of the waffling conservatives. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lieberman-takes-the-moral-high-ground/244042/31 "2004-05-07T20:00:46Z")
nope sorry, 10 second news footage of someone being escorted out of the hearings does **not** rattle their cages. It only serves to support their idea that 'most right thinkin ‘mericans’ support our cause. Do you honestly believe that the folks watching Nascar races see that footage and start wondering if there really is something to worry about? I heard the local am radio jock talking about the abuses at the prisons. IN his ‘arent’ the liiiiiiiiiberals stoooopid’ voice, he talks about it not being that bad, Saddam did worse, and 9-11. and the folks calling in all agreed. and footage of a couple of guys disrupting congressional hearings do **not** serve to demonstrate to **anyone** that there are actually quite a few folks who are horrified by this, that feel folks in charge should be held culpable. know thine enemy. Please don’t help them by allowing them to see us as clowns easily swept away. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lieberman-takes-the-moral-high-ground/244042/32 "2004-05-07T20:07:33Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > Is there some reason both can’t be done? What blue shirt did was on the news, and we’re sitting here talking about it. We’re talking about Fred Phelps, too. So what? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lieberman-takes-the-moral-high-ground/244042/33 "2004-05-07T20:13:30Z")
> [@Libertarian](#): > > We’re talking about Fred Phelps, too. So what? Who the hell is Fred Phelps? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lieberman-takes-the-moral-high-ground/244042/34 "2004-05-07T20:17:58Z")
He’s a Democrat from Topeka, Kansas. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lieberman-takes-the-moral-high-ground/244042/35 "2004-05-07T20:21:29Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > Is there some reason both can’t be done? What blue shirt did was on the news, and we’re sitting here talking about it. It _how_ they’re talking about it that’s important. I’m a libertarian-conservative, on the opposite side of the fence from most of the Dopers, so take my view for what it’s worth. Those protestors were unprofessional, and will be dismissed with a :rolleyes: They interrupted a serious hearing. I agree with **wring** : protest wisely. No one is going to take standing up and screaming and shouting seriously. (Witness Howard Dean.) But serious dialogue, no matter what the political view, will not be dismissed. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lieberman-takes-the-moral-high-ground/244042/36 "2004-05-07T20:23:15Z")
You see, all I see in this sort of tantrum is masturbation. An action, effectively accomplishing nothing, done solely for personal pleasure. I would be **very** doubtful that you’re moving anyone in any direction other than ‘Christ, what tools’ even among those sympathetic to your cause. Hell, Olentzero, I **am** overwhelmingly sympathetic to your cause. I want Bush out so bad I can taste it. And I **still** think that’s pointless. Far better to attempt to organize a large-scale protest outside the hearing building. Or, more subtly, begin cultivating relationships with junior reporters at the Post (don’t try the Times…trust me). Over time you’ll find that giving them leads will results in positive coverage in larger venues as they mature in their careers. Think of it as a long-term investment. Or start a PAC and begin contributing campaign money to candidates you prefer. Over time that MAY pay off (provided the candidates you like are attractive enough to a decent chunk of voters). Here’s a quiz. Who brings about more and greater change in government and the means of governing: Protestors causing a disturbance Lobbyists working the system ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lieberman-takes-the-moral-high-ground/244042/37 "2004-05-07T20:25:40Z")
> [@wring](#): > > nope sorry, 10 second news footage of someone being escorted out of the hearings does **not** rattle their cages. a) It wasn’t 10 seconds b) It’s mentioned on news websites c) It was seen on TV d) We’re talking about it > [@](#): > > It only serves to support their idea that 'most right thinkin ‘mericans’ support our cause. Well we know this idea is wrong. We’ve already seen how delusional they are by how they run this country, who cares if this adds a little more to that or not. > [@](#): > > Do you honestly believe that the folks watching Nascar races see that footage and start wondering if there really is something to worry about? As opposed to having an organized anti Bush rally? If people watch the news and keep up with current events then they’ll see it, if they don’t, they won’t. > [@](#): > > I heard the local am radio jock talking about the abuses at the prisons. IN his ‘arent’ the liiiiiiiiiberals stoooopid’ voice, he talks about it not being that bad, Saddam did worse, and 9-11. and the folks calling in all agreed. and footage of a couple of guys disrupting congressional hearings do **not** serve to demonstrate to **anyone** that there are actually quite a few folks who are horrified by this, that feel folks in charge should be held culpable. I totally disagree. We need to get the word out anyway we can, literally. I would think that both methods combined would be the best route. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lieberman-takes-the-moral-high-ground/244042/38 "2004-05-07T20:29:04Z")
> [@Libertarian](#): > > He’s a Democrat from Topeka, Kansas. While technically true, it’s rather obvious that your recent delusional state is causing you to emPHAsize the wrong political sylLABles. Phelps is a looney patriarch of a looney clan, based in his own twisted and insane interpretation of the Bible. His website is the infamous [God Hates Fags](http://www.godhatesfags.com). He’s picketed such events as Matthew Shepard’s funeral, Fred Rogers’s funeral, universities which show compassion and equality to homosexuals, and apparently a Topeka Episcopal church (over the course of decades). At one time, he apparently ran for public office in Topeka (or Kansas) as a Democrat. Of course, Lyndon Larouche attempts this on occasion as well. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lieberman-takes-the-moral-high-ground/244042/39 "2004-05-07T20:29:16Z")
> [@Jonathan Chance](#): > > Far better to attempt to organize a large-scale protest outside the hearing building. Yeah, 'cept you can’t seem to get within 50 blocks of these guys. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lieberman-takes-the-moral-high-ground/244042/40 "2004-05-07T20:41:09Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > a) It wasn’t 10 seconds > b) It’s mentioned on news websites > c) It was seen on > d) We’re talking about it Specific amount of time is irrrelevant, none of your list rattles their cages. think - there were newstories about the prison abuses back in January and **nobody** was talking - until photos appear on 60 minutes (which, as opposed to news websites and on TV, do more in depth stories) that rattled their cages. this two guys didn’t. > [@](#): > > Well we know this idea is wrong. We’ve already seen how delusional they are by how they run this country, who cares if this adds a little more to that or not. “we” do. look at the poll numbers. there’s still about half of the country that think Bush should be returned to office **even though** about 60% think things are fucked in Iraq. who do you think needs convincing? us tidy liberals sipping on wine or the guys at the trailer park slugging up beer? (yes, I know stereotypes, I don’t really believe them, just using the image to make the point). > [@](#): > > As opposed to having an organized anti Bush rally? If people watch the news and keep up with current events then they’ll see it, if they don’t, they won’t. Ditto for the guys protesting at the hearings even less so. Blink and you missed it. > [@](#): > > I totally disagree. We need to get the word out anyway we can, literally. I would think that both methods combined would be the best route. yes, we need to get the word out - but in a way so that we’re not easily dismissed by idiots. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lieberman-takes-the-moral-high-ground/244042.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lieberman-takes-the-moral-high-ground/244042.md?page=3)