# Liefhebben (Nederlands taal vraag) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 6, 2001, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liefhebben-nederlands-taal-vraag/53396 "2001-02-06T20:51:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2001, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liefhebben-nederlands-taal-vraag/53396/1 "2001-02-06T20:51:06Z")
The dictionary tells us that that the verb “to love” in literary Dutch is _liefhebben_. But it seems to be one of those compound verbs where you have to break up the two parts (_lief + heb-_) and separate them when you conjugate it. So how would you translate, for example, the song “I Love Paris”? Would that be “_ik heb Paris lief_”? (This is apart from the colloquial way to say “I love you,” which I’m told is _ik hou van jou_ – it seems to mean literally ‘I have from you’. Huh? I have _what_ from you? The clap?) _Dank U weel._ ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2001, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liefhebben-nederlands-taal-vraag/53396/2 "2001-02-07T00:39:21Z")
Jomo, I think you’ve got it right, but I’ll prudently wait for een echte nederlander to come by and confirm. I just thought I’d mention that German has this word too, so that “ich liebe euch” can also be “ich hab’ euch lieb”. Sounds odd, no? ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2001, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liefhebben-nederlands-taal-vraag/53396/3 "2001-02-07T05:51:41Z")
If you can simply say _ich liebe Paris_ in German, why can’t you say _ik lief Paris_ in Dutch? I guess what I’m asking for is the right way to conjugate _liefhebben_. As odd as it looks to break up a verb, _ik hou van Paris_ seems even stranger. ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2001, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liefhebben-nederlands-taal-vraag/53396/4 "2001-02-07T16:29:33Z")
Since Coldfire seems to be busy moderating, thought I’d put in my amateur two cents. The “houden van” thing cartainly works in this case as well: Ik houd van Paris. Ik houd Paris niet van: I don’t like Paris. Houd je van televisie? Do you like TV? It looks funny to English speakers, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t correct. Liefen seems a bit strong for this usage. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2001, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liefhebben-nederlands-taal-vraag/53396/5 "2001-02-07T18:13:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Liefen seems a bit strong for this usage. Why is _liefhebben_ too strong? How would you use it? For something you really, really, really love with every fibre of your being? I googled the words _heb_ and _lief_, and came up with a song: _Ik Heb U Lief Mijn Nederland_ (I love you [soooooo very, very much) my Netherlands). ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2001, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liefhebben-nederlands-taal-vraag/53396/6 "2001-02-07T18:18:07Z")
> [@](#): > > _Gij mannen, hebt uw eigen vrouwen lief, gelijk ook Christus de Gemeente liefgehad heeft._ > > “Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it.” ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2001, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liefhebben-nederlands-taal-vraag/53396/7 "2001-02-07T18:48:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hibernicus \* > \*\*Jomo, I think you’ve got it right, but I’ll prudently wait for een echte nederlander to come by and confirm. I just thought I’d mention that German has this word too, so that “ich liebe euch” can also be “ich hab’ euch lieb”. Sounds odd, no? \*\* I took German, and I was never taught the pronoun “euch” for “you” in any tense. I thought it was strictly “dich” or “Sich” for second person objective. ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2001, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liefhebben-nederlands-taal-vraag/53396/8 "2001-02-07T18:50:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hibernicus \* > \*\*Jomo, I think you’ve got it right, but I’ll prudently wait for een echte nederlander to come by and confirm. I just thought I’d mention that German has this word too, so that “ich liebe euch” can also be “ich hab’ euch lieb”. Sounds odd, no? \*\* I took German, and I was never taught the pronoun “euch” for “you” in any tense. I thought it was strictly “dich” or “Sich” for second person objective. But the Babelfish translator knows it. Maybe I fell asleep that day in German… ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2001, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liefhebben-nederlands-taal-vraag/53396/9 "2001-02-07T19:09:35Z")
euch is for “ya’ll”-- 2d person (familiar) plural accusative. Ihr (plural familiar you, not Sie) habt euch gekleidet (ya’ll dressed yerselves) would work for the relexive, for example. Ich ruf euch an: I’m ringing ya’ll up. Sure, heb some lief if you want to, but ya gotta heb it, cuz it’s a noun. Ik heb Amsterdam lief. ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2001, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liefhebben-nederlands-taal-vraag/53396/10 "2001-02-07T19:12:20Z")
(sorry, actually in the example of anrufen I used euch is DATIVE, not accusative, but it’s the same word in that case-- euch is used for both dative and accusative. Mea culpa) ---
**Author:** ![Zweistein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/54ee81/32.png) [@Zweistein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zweistein)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2001, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liefhebben-nederlands-taal-vraag/53396/11 "2001-02-08T00:13:58Z")
Well, I think the difference is more subtle. “Ik heb U lief” is less stronger than the phrase “Ik bemin U”; “Ik heb U lief” can refer also to non-living things as “Ik heb Parijs lief”, but “Ik bemin U” refers alsmost only to human beings. The expression “Ik bemin Parijs” is valid but would express a very strong emotion. “Ik heb U lief” refering to persons is a little bit archaic, the common phrase would be “Ik hou van U”. ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2001, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liefhebben-nederlands-taal-vraag/53396/12 "2001-02-08T00:16:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by capybara \* > **euch is used for both dative and accusative.** A small confession: that’s why I used it! I couldn’t figure whether it was “ich habe dich lieb” or “ich habe dir lieb”, so I skirted the issue:). ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2001, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liefhebben-nederlands-taal-vraag/53396/13 "2001-02-09T14:29:14Z")
Sorry guys, I’ve been buys. 😉 OK, let’s tackle the problems one by one. I’ll skip the German ones and concentrate on Dutch. > [@](#): > > The dictionary tells us that that the verb “to love” in literary Dutch is liefhebben. But it seems to be one of those compound verbs where you have to break up the two parts (lief + heb-) and separate them when you conjugate it. Correct. > [@](#): > > So how would you translate, for example, the song “I Love Paris”? Would that be “ik heb Paris lief”? This is technically correct, but rather archaic. The most common way would be _Ik hou van Parijs_ (“I love Paris” [note the different Dutch spelling of Paris]), or _Ik ben dol op Parijs_ (“I am fond of Paris”), from the verb _dol zijn op_ (“fond be of”, literally). > [@](#): > > (This is apart from the colloquial way to say “I love you,” which I’m told is ik hou van jou – it seems to mean literally ‘I have from you’. Huh? I have what from you? The clap?) _Houden_ means “to keep”. _Ik houd kippen in mijn tuin_ means “I keep chickens in my yard”. _Houden van_ means “to love”. There’s no real reasoning to this: it’s one of those things where it will remain illogical untill you have enough “feel” for the language, I’m afraid. And boy, have you picked a difficult language to develop a feel for. 😉 > [@](#): > > Dank U weel. _“wel”_, actually - but you’re quite forgiven. 😃 > [@](#): > > Ik houd Paris niet van: I don’t like Paris. It’s more complicated than that. The correct conjugation is _Ik houd niet van Parijs_. > [@](#): > > Well, I think the difference is more subtle. “Ik heb U lief” is less stronger than the phrase “Ik bemin U” Not necessarily. _Ik heb U (or “u”, uncapitalised. The “U” form is archaic) lief_ is an archaic form of expressing love to, say, a women. But it’s a non-archaic, respectful way of expressing love towards a country, for example. _Ik bemin U_ only applies to people, and implies a romantic connotation. This is **not** something to say to mommy. Save it for the girlfriend. 😉 > [@](#): > > “Ik heb U lief” can refer also to non-living things as “Ik heb Parijs lief”, but “Ik bemin U” refers alsmost only to human beings. The expression “Ik bemin Parijs” is valid but would express a very strong emotion. Very good, but not entirely correct. _Beminnen_, as said, implies romance - and is people related. > [@](#): > > “Ik heb U lief” refering to persons is a little bit archaic, the common phrase would be “Ik hou van U”. VERY archaic, even. And _ik hou van u_ is something you might say to your grandfather. To a lover, you’d say _ik hou van **jou** _. Dutch differentiates between a more formal, respectful second person (“u”), and a more aproachable one (“je”/“jij” [same], posessive: “jou”). Furthermore, “u” is both singular and plural, and it is often a task of interpreting the context to figure the difference out. I’m telling ya, it’s a _mighty_ interesting language, but a pretty tough one to fully grasp for a native English speaker. I hope you’re enjoying it, though. And never hesitate to ask anything - I love explainging about my language! [Edited by Coldfire on 02-09-2001 at 08:33 AM] ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2001, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liefhebben-nederlands-taal-vraag/53396/14 "2001-02-09T14:46:41Z")
I also believe that “beminnen” is more used in poetry than in actual conversation: it’s a little heavy handed. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2001, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liefhebben-nederlands-taal-vraag/53396/15 "2001-02-09T14:50:45Z")
True. ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2001, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liefhebben-nederlands-taal-vraag/53396/16 "2001-02-09T23:09:05Z")
Ah, since you’ve volunteered. . . a problem I have today: Are you familiar with the word “vademecum”? I know it’s likely not Dutch, but is used here in a manuscript title: “Een Brugs Vademecum voor de Rome- en Jeruzalemvaarder samengesteld door. . .” Is this an old word for “itinerary” or journal? Thanks; I’m sure I’ll have more problems soon. I had a very bad sentence the other day but I can’t remember where I ran into it. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2001, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liefhebben-nederlands-taal-vraag/53396/17 "2001-02-10T01:46:36Z")
From the [Van Dale website](http://www.vandale.nl/) (the oldest and most elaborate Dutch dictionary): > [@](#): > > **va·de·´me·cum** (het ~) > > 1. Boek van klein formaat en beknopte inhoud, bestemd als beknopte handleiding. Meaning: **Book of small size and brief content, meant as a short manual**. The word is Latin in origin.