# Lies, damned lies, and phony statistics?  Gun control again.

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lies-damned-lies-and-phony-statistics-gun-control-again/666280>\
**Category:** Great Debates\
**Created:** [August 15, 2013, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lies-damned-lies-and-phony-statistics-gun-control-again/666280 "2013-08-15T04:10:37Z")\
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**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\
**Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lies-damned-lies-and-phony-statistics-gun-control-again/666280/25 "2013-08-28T09:56:30Z")

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In fact, I did this exercise a while back: comparing US and UK violent crime on the basis of the only the US definition of violent crime.

**The UK rate is half that of the US**.

> [@Sam Harris on a world without guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-harris-on-a-world-without-guns/648808/71):
>
> The FBI definition of violent crime is:
> 
> [
> 
> > [@Originally Posted by FBI](#):
> >
> > In the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program, violent crime is composed of four offenses: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.
> 
> ]([http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/violent-crime](http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/violent-crime))
> 
> The Home Office defintion is considerably looser:  
> [
> 
> > [@Originally Posted by Home Office](#):
> >
> > Violent crime contains a wide range of offences, from minor assaults such as pushing and shoving that result in no physical harm through to serious incidents of wounding and murder. Around a half of violent incidents identified by both BCS and police statistics involve no injury to the victim.
> 
> ]([http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/science-research-statistics/research-statistics/crime-research/hosb1011/hosb1011?view=Binary](http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/science-research-statistics/research-statistics/crime-research/hosb1011/hosb1011?view=Binary))
> 
> If you only look at the UK’s incidence of murder, manslaughter, rape, robbery and aggravated assault (GBH in UK-crime-speak) you get a comparable violent crime rate of **202 per 100K.** \* Pretty much half of the US rate\*\* for the same offenses.\*\*
> 
> (Source: Table 1 of the [Home Office stats](http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/science-research-statistics/research-statistics/crime-research/hosb0812/hosb0812?view=Binary)).
> 
> \*Murder and attempted murder: 1161; GBH with intent: 19,489; GBH without intent 15,112; All rape: 15892; All robbery: 76,189. Total: 127843 violent crimes. UK Pop = 62.3M. Please check my working.

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