# Lies told by prominant democrats **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 2, 2010, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lies-told-by-prominant-democrats/523428 "2010-01-02T20:31:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lies-told-by-prominant-democrats/523428/201 "2010-01-04T20:49:50Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > Not sure yet. Disappointment at the number of ‘quality’ Democratic lies. I can’t determine if posters are unwilling to post them or if the Democrats just aren’t lying hard enough. Someones just not doing their part. Well, you restricted it to Dem lies targeted at Republicans. If you just did lies in general (e.g. lying about how a given policy would work out) then you’d get a lot more. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lies-told-by-prominant-democrats/523428/202 "2010-01-04T20:51:57Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > That ad claims “Republicans are so desperate to block health reform and protect their special interest friends that they delayed funding for our men and women in uniform. Then they voted against it.” > > They neither delayed funding, nor voted against it. Right, Republicans were not successful in delaying funding for the troops because they did not prevail in the procedural votes. But that is how all but three Republicans voted: to indefinitely delay the vote to approve money for the troops. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lies-told-by-prominant-democrats/523428/203 "2010-01-04T20:56:11Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I don’t get it. What is hyperbole to some is a lie to others. > > Like Alan Grayson’s “just die” comment. I think there isn’t a shred of truth in that statement, even though I’m a liberal. Whether or not there is some person here to defend Grayson or Glenn Beck, doesn’t effect the fact that everything said in politics is subject to spin. Whether the spin constitutes jazzing up the truth with hot rhetoric; or having a speck of truth in a bowl full of lies; is more a matter of opinion than anything. Don’t expect consensus on anything beyond a couple howlers. C’mon…I think that is obvious hyperbole and instantly recognizable as such. If Grayson said (as an example), “Republicans will be telling you the sun rises in the West” would you for an instant call him a liar or immediately recognize it for the rhetoric it is? If you can plausibly say someone out there, who is not actually brain dead, thought for a second that Republicans _actually_ wrote a health plan to be submitted to Congress that amounted to “just die” then you can call Grayson a liar on this. To my mind it is so patently over-the-top and immediately recognizable as untrue calling him a liar goes too far for that. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lies-told-by-prominant-democrats/523428/204 "2010-01-04T20:57:24Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Well, I can say there are several more lies I can think of, but frankly, when one that’s as clear-cut (in my view) as “The Wall Street Journal said McCain was going to cut $1.2 trillion in Medicare benefits,” when the actual article has a McCain spokesman saying that no benefits will be cut… when something that clear-cut remains on the “debatable” list, it’s really not clear to me what benefit there would be in offering other examples. > > So, at least for me, part of the reason you’re not seeing more offerings is that the standard required for a statement to be accepted as a lie is virtually unreachable. I personally accept the quote as a lie. However improbable McCain’s proposal was no one has offered evidence it was impossible. He did not say he was going to cut benefits. it remains on the list as ‘being debated’ simply because people are still defending it as true. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lies-told-by-prominant-democrats/523428/205 "2010-01-04T21:03:28Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Well, you restricted it to Dem lies targeted at Republicans. If you just did lies in general (e.g. lying about how a given policy would work out) then you’d get a lot more. Honestly I wanted to limit the topic to lies I could easily follow. When you start getting into policy lies they often get more complicated then my meager mind can comprehend. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lies-told-by-prominant-democrats/523428/206 "2010-01-04T21:08:15Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > it remains on the list as ‘being debated’ simply because people are still defending it as true. Which makes the list utterly useless because it has nothing to do with factual accuracy, just the complete unwillingness of certain people to abandon an unreasonable position. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lies-told-by-prominant-democrats/523428/207 "2010-01-04T21:16:24Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Which makes the list utterly useless because it has nothing to do with factual accuracy, just the complete unwillingness of certain people to abandon an unreasonable position. You know what they say. You can please some of the people some of the time, but can you just please pass the pie? ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lies-told-by-prominant-democrats/523428/208 "2010-01-04T21:17:03Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Which makes the list utterly useless because it has nothing to do with factual accuracy, just the complete unwillingness of certain people to abandon an unreasonable position. How would you recommend we establish factual accuracy. Should one person get to make that determination. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lies-told-by-prominant-democrats/523428/209 "2010-01-04T21:22:25Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > How long has the US had troops in Germany and Japan? > > The claim that McCain wanted a hundred years of war is an outright lie. A more accurate claim is that McCain wanted a hundred years of peace, but had presented no plan of how to achieve that peace. I don’t think he wanted 100 years of peace, either. He was all for the occupation of Iraq so long as there were no _American_ casualties. His concern for the people he wanted to occupy was conspicuous in its absence. He didn’t say he wanted 100 years of war, true, but I think he’d be okay with 100 years of uncontested conquest. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lies-told-by-prominant-democrats/523428/210 "2010-01-04T21:35:32Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > I don’t think he wanted 100 years of peace, either. He was all for the occupation of Iraq so long as there were no _American_ casualties. His concern for the people he wanted to occupy was conspicuous in its absence. He didn’t say he wanted 100 years of war, true, but I think he’d be okay with 100 years of uncontested conquest. Just like South Korea and Japan, right? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lies-told-by-prominant-democrats/523428/211 "2010-01-04T21:48:37Z")
No, nothing like Japan and Korea. Neither country was invaded under false pretenses so their resources could be plundered by those who contribute to McCain’s political party. I don’t understand why Japan and Korea are even brought up. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lies-told-by-prominant-democrats/523428/212 "2010-01-04T21:49:50Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So you consider this to be “about Republicans” - correct? And she counts as a prominent enough Democrat, correct? No more waffling and double standards - anything like this is good enough to count. Correct I’m not aware of any waffling or double-standards, but I suppose it’s good enough to count – or maybe crazy _shouldn’t_ count. I don’t know. Is “death panels” a lie or just crazy? By the way, you still haven’t said what prominent Democrat accused Sarah Palin of banning books or of saying “I can see Russia from my House.” You specifically called the latter statement a “lie.” Who told it? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lies-told-by-prominant-democrats/523428/213 "2010-01-04T22:07:00Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I’m not aware of any waffling or double-standards, but I suppose it’s good enough to count – or maybe crazy shouldn’t count. I don’t know. Is “death panels” a lie or just crazy? [/QUOTE] I’d go with C) Hyperbole. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lies-told-by-prominant-democrats/523428/214 "2010-01-04T22:27:07Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I’d go with C) Hyperbole. Hyperbole? Palin? Doubt she knows what the word means. Anyway, Palin is clearly trying to portray the “Death Panels” as real. > [@](#): > > **Sarah Palin doubles down on ‘death panels’** > > Former Alaska GOP Gov. Sarah Palin defended her claim that the Democratic health care proposal would create “death panels” in a statement Wednesday night slamming President Barack Obama. > > \ > > “The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s ‘death panel’ so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their ‘level of productivity in society,’ whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil,” Palin wrote last week. > > SOURCE: [http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0809/26078.html](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0809/26078.html) (read the whole article…not seeing her as viewing it as hyperbole) ---
**Author:** ![Milossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Milossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milossarian)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lies-told-by-prominant-democrats/523428/215 "2010-01-04T22:28:38Z")
It’s nice to know that some things never change. Then there are instances like this thread. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lies-told-by-prominant-democrats/523428/216 "2010-01-04T22:28:55Z")
That she is trying to portray them as real does not equate to her actual belief that they are real. Were her lips moving when she made the above statements? If so… -XT ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lies-told-by-prominant-democrats/523428/217 "2010-01-04T22:37:37Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > How would you recommend we establish factual accuracy. Should one person get to make that determination. It’s how _I_ do it - there are enough morons in the world that you’ll rarely get 100% agreement on something. If they can’t come up with valid reasons for their position, their refusal to admit defeat says nothing of value about the situation. > [@The\_Tooth](#): > > I don’t understand why Japan and Korea are even brought up. Because those are the specific countries that McCain referred to in his statement. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lies-told-by-prominant-democrats/523428/218 "2010-01-04T22:38:21Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > No, nothing like Japan and Korea. Neither country was invaded under false pretenses so their resources could be plundered by those who contribute to McCain’s political party. I don’t understand why Japan and Korea are even brought up. Perhaps it would help to go back and review what McCain said in full context. Scroll up for a link. South Korea and Japan are brought up because those are the examples McCain used when referring to what we might be doing in Iraq for 100 years. You know, maintaining a strategic and/or peacekeeping base of operations in the region. Outside of war. Now, McCain may very well be kidding himself to expect that could happen in Iraq, but that’s not what Mr. Obama contended. Obama explicitly stated McCain wants the war in Iraq to continue for another hundred years. Can you honestly not see the difference? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lies-told-by-prominant-democrats/523428/219 "2010-01-04T22:39:00Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > That she is trying to portray them as real does not equate to her actual belief that they are real. Were her lips moving when she made the above statements? If so… > > -XT - If she believes they are real then she is willfully ignorant and perpetuating a lie. - If she believes they are not real then she is a liar. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lies-told-by-prominant-democrats/523428/220 "2010-01-04T22:42:10Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I’d go with C) Hyperbole. > > -XT If Sarah Palin thinks that’s hyperbole, perhaps she could use a few lessons from Biden. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lies-told-by-prominant-democrats/523428.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lies-told-by-prominant-democrats/523428.md?page=12)