# Life on Mars, wasting time or no? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 2, 2003, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/life-on-mars-wasting-time-or-no/179174 "2003-06-02T18:10:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/life-on-mars-wasting-time-or-no/179174/61 "2003-06-05T14:09:06Z")
…And people seem to be getting ahead of themselves here. We’re sending unmanned probes to research surface conditions, meteorology and geology, at a much, MUCH LOWER expense in cash and blood than if we were gearing up for a massive exploration/exploitation/settlement timetable, or even if we were giving the astroscientists what they really wanted. “Looking for life on Mars”, as mentioned earlier, is a way to simplify the straight planetary-science research for public opinion. Any agenda to terraform Mars – and thus to alter any existing ecosystem – is pure SF at this point. It may even come to pass that eventually it is decided there is no need to TF any place, or some other development comes along that makes TF look so slow, expensive and disruptive that it’s pointless to bother with it. It still stands, that the relatively small amount of resources (in proportion to US/EU GNPs) spent in the sensible parts of space exploration (there are parts that are just make-work public projects, sure) would not necessarily be redirected to “worthier” pursuits. More likely they’d go into some useless pork-barrel project for the legislators’ home districts. (And I don’t fear militarization, either. In and of itself it does me no harm. The Internet was already mentioned as an originally “strategic” project. So was the US Interstate Highway system. So were the first digital computers. And the nav systems high-reliability jet engines, enhanced-lift wings, etc. on the last airplane I rode to my sister’s home, plus the ATC that guided it there and the two conveniently-located airports owed a lot to milspec requirements sometime in the past) ---
**Author:** ![InquisitiveIdiot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/3ec8ea/32.png) [@InquisitiveIdiot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InquisitiveIdiot)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/life-on-mars-wasting-time-or-no/179174/62 "2003-06-05T17:33:23Z")
JRDelirious, just for the record, I agree with you. I’m just trying to educate those here about the potential effects of introducing species to alien environments. > [@](#): > > Well, that’s assuming there is life on Mars, and that it would somehow be wiped out by anything we brought. If there is life on Mars, it’s had a couple of billion years to adapt to the conditions there, whatever we send is going to be at a distinct disadvantage. Didn’t happen to the dodo. As I remember, the rats gave them a pretty good working over because the dodo wasn’t equipped to combat them effectively. Suppose our hypothetical lifeform lacks the capability to produce antibodies. You’d have the old science fiction cliche: human sneezes, every alien on the planet dies. It’s a more complicated process than “eh well, they’ll adapt.” They will, but they have to survive it first. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2003, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/life-on-mars-wasting-time-or-no/179174/63 "2003-06-06T04:14:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by InquisitiveIdiot \* > \*\*Didn’t happen to the dodo. As I remember, the rats gave them a pretty good working over because the dodo wasn’t equipped to combat them effectively. Suppose our hypothetical lifeform lacks the capability to produce antibodies. You’d have the old science fiction cliche: human sneezes, every alien on the planet dies. It’s a more complicated process than “eh well, they’ll adapt.” They will, but they have to survive it first. \*\* Again, that’s assuming that they exist, even if there _are_ Martians, sooner or later, someone’s going to colonize Mars. It may be humans, it may be whatever evolves on the Earth after us. IAC, you can bet that _whomever_ it is, they _aren’t_ going to be too worried about any Martian microbes running about. Because by the time we get to that point, humanity (or whomever) is going to be in desperate need of another planet and they’re not going to let any silly bacteria get in their way. Besides, the dodo was just a [giant pidgeon](http://discover.com/july_02/breakdodo.html) and it [didn’t make good eating.](http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/02/0227_0228_dodo.html) > [@](#): > > According to the captain of a Dutch expedition to the birds’ home on Mauritius in 1598, the bird was also called walckvogel, meaning disgusting bird. The Dutch, although they killed them by the hundreds in hunting expeditions, apparently found the meat exceedingly tough no matter how long it was boiled. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2003, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/life-on-mars-wasting-time-or-no/179174/64 "2003-06-06T09:22:40Z")
The chance that there is life on Mars is increased slightly by the existence of life on the relatively nearby planet of Earth- it is unlikely that there has been a separate instance of abiogenesis on our neighbour planet- (unless the creation of life is a very common occurrence-_we have difficulty knowing because of our limited sample of one_) but it seems likely to me that microbes could be transferred from our inner planet to the outer one, perhaps riding tektites or the solar wind. Some micro-organisms, such as _Deinococcus Radiodurans_, are surprisingly resistant to radiation, so the transfer through deep space would not be impossible. So, in my opinion, Mars life would most likely be an extension of the Earth biota. Local panspermia, perhaps. You might find that any life on Mars is deep underground, just like the deep subterranean microbiota that exists in Earth’s rocks- we interact very little with these organisms, and we probably could ignore the deep Martian organisms too. But it would be interesting to find out. Sorry, I can’t offer any budgetary justification for the expense- it is something we need to know, however, _if_ we are to colonise the galaxy at some point in the future. * * * SF worldbuilding at [http://www.orionsarm.com/main.html](http://www.orionsarm.com/main.html) ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2003, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/life-on-mars-wasting-time-or-no/179174/65 "2003-06-06T18:26:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tuckerfan \* > \*\*Again, that’s assuming that they exist, even if there _are_ Martians, sooner or later, someone’s going to colonize Mars. It may be humans, it may be whatever evolves on the Earth after us. IAC, you can bet that _whomever_ it is, they _aren’t_ going to be too worried about any Martian microbes running about. Because by the time we get to that point, humanity (or whomever) is going to be in desperate need of another planet and they’re not going to let any silly bacteria get in their way. Besides, the dodo was just a [giant pidgeon](http://discover.com/july_02/breakdodo.html) and it [didn’t make good eating.](http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/02/0227_0228_dodo.html) \*\* you’re justifying extinction because an animal doesn’t taste good? ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2003, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/life-on-mars-wasting-time-or-no/179174/66 "2003-06-07T06:37:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\*you’re justifying extinction because an animal doesn’t taste good? \*\* That’s as good a reason as any. It’s not that I like extinction, but it _is_ part of the natural order of things to a degree. That doesn’t mean that we should allow animals to become extinct if we can prevent it, but at the same time, we need to look at what the animal _is._ In the case of Mars, if it’s merely bacterial or similar life, then, who the heck cares? If it’s multicellular life on the level of something like a mouse or better, then by all means we shouldn’t mess with it. _However_, I sincerely doubt we’re going to find much of anything in the way of life on Mars, as depressing as that thought might be. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2003, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/life-on-mars-wasting-time-or-no/179174/67 "2003-06-07T13:35:11Z")
Suppose we discover lakes on Mars, with 3-4 feet of ice on top, much like the lakes in the dry valleys of antarctica. NASA decides to design a probe to drill through the ice, and send a small submarine into such a lake. Water samples are retrieved, and brought back to earth…in th water, a strange bacteria is found…eons of tough conditions on mars have made this bacterium impossible to kill. Neither acids, UV radiation,or any known bacteriocide will kill it! A sample of the bacterioum is stolen from a NASA lab…and it is found that the bacteria willinfect all living organisms…it colonizes and kills green plants! The bacteria is released, and it destroys most of the corn and wheat crops in N America…famine ensues! Could this happen? ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2003, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/life-on-mars-wasting-time-or-no/179174/68 "2003-06-07T14:12:40Z")
No. Next question. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2003, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/life-on-mars-wasting-time-or-no/179174/69 "2003-06-07T14:20:45Z")
Well, actually, that is a bit simplistic- -Aeons of time evolving on Mars, would produce a very hardy, extremophile organism- such a creature would not cope with the high energy flux oxygen rich environment of earth- there are plenty of extremophile organisms on this planet, but they do not run around infecting the green plants or other multicellular organisms. The Martian microbes would be completely unused to earth-like biota, and would find it very difficult to find an ecological niche in our already crowded and oxygen rich environment. * * * SF worldbuilding at [http://www.orionsarm.com/main.html](http://www.orionsarm.com/main.html) ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2003, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/life-on-mars-wasting-time-or-no/179174/70 "2003-06-07T15:16:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by eburacum45 \* > \*\*Well, actually, that is a bit simplistic- > -Aeons of time evolving on Mars, would produce a very hardy, extremophile organism- > such a creature would not cope with the high energy flux oxygen rich environment of earth- there are plenty of extremophile organisms on this planet, but they do not run around infecting the green plants or other multicellular organisms. > > The Martian microbes would be completely unused to earth-like biota, and would find it very difficult to find an ecological niche in our already crowded and oxygen rich environment. > > * * * > > SF worldbuilding at > [http://www.orionsarm.com/main.html](http://www.orionsarm.com/main.html) \*\* Not to mention they probably wouldn’t find Earth’s greater gravity all that appealing. ---
**Author:** ![GOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@GOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GOM)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2003, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/life-on-mars-wasting-time-or-no/179174/71 "2003-06-07T16:06:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ale \* > \*\* > > Seeing the face expression of creationist if life is found on Mars would make it worth it… 😃 > > \*\* Okay. Come on over, if you ever visit Southern California… I’m a creationist and I **expect** that life will be found on Mars eventually. However I also expect that it will be DNA-based life from Earth. Btw, a pretty smart guy, Arthur C. Clarke, already apparently believes there is life on Mars just from some of the pictures he has seen. Excuse me. That’s Sir Arthur now! 🙂 .02 > **[Mars: What We Know About the Red Planet](https://www.space.com/47-mars-the-red-planet-fourth-planet-from-the-sun.html)** > > We're learning more about the fourth rock from the sun every day. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2003, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/life-on-mars-wasting-time-or-no/179174/72 "2003-06-07T19:44:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tuckerfan \* > \*\*Not to mention they probably wouldn’t find Earth’s greater gravity all that appealing. \*\* Actually, at that very small level organisms seem to be little affected by gravity gradients as such, being more affected by surface tension and fluid flows. But yes, Martian microbes would be well adapted to extreme cold, extremely low barometric pressure, and radiation… but that does not tell us how well could they handle temperatures above 20C/68F while soaked in several thousand times more concentrated oxygen that they’ve ever encountered (or why should they be immune to acids or solvents). If we want to be ultra-cautious, we could always use an earth-orbital lab as quarantine station. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2003, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/life-on-mars-wasting-time-or-no/179174/73 "2003-06-07T20:36:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tuckerfan \* > \*\*That’s as good a reason as any. It’s not that I like extinction, but it _is_ part of the natural order of things to a degree. That doesn’t mean that we should allow animals to become extinct if we can prevent it, but at the same time, we need to look at what the animal _is._ In the case of Mars, if it’s merely bacterial or similar life, then, who the heck cares? If it’s multicellular life on the level of something like a mouse or better, then by all means we shouldn’t mess with it. _However_, I sincerely doubt we’re going to find much of anything in the way of life on Mars, as depressing as that thought might be. \*\* That bacteria could have the cure for a disease hidden in it’s genetic code. So could have the dodo, but we shall never know. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2003, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/life-on-mars-wasting-time-or-no/179174/74 "2003-06-07T20:54:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\*That bacteria could have the cure for a disease hidden in it’s genetic code. So could have the dodo, but we shall never know. \*\* Actually, we could find out if the dodo’s DNA was valuable since we’ve got samples. That’s how we found out that they were giant pidgeons. As for Martian baterial DNA containing the cure for some Earthly disease, that possibility is even _more_ unlikely than there even being life on Mars. ---
**Author:** ![ElbaliavanU](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@ElbaliavanU](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElbaliavanU)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2003, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/life-on-mars-wasting-time-or-no/179174/75 "2003-06-08T19:21:37Z")
GOM, I am a firm creationist too, but I don’t think finding life on Mars is gonna happen… Genesis1:6-8 says~ _And God said, “let there be space between the waters, to seperate water form water”. And so it was. God made the space to seperate the waters above from the waters below. And God called the space “sky”. This happened on the second day._ That is where the water on Mars came from: earth. So, in a sense, you were right, GOM. Stuff on Mars came from earth. It just wasn’t animals. And since God created animals after the second day, there could have been no animals in the water that went out into space. It doesn’t say anywhere that God did this with the animals, however. Ok, ok, I know… Water just boils away in space because the air pressure is so low…But shouldn’t we give God some credit for who He is? He could make water stay in space if He wanted to… Ale- I respect your position about IF life will be found… "Seeing the face expression of creationist if life is found on Mars would make it worth it… " I’m sure it would. Have fun waiting for that moment… You’ll be waiting for a while. ---
**Author:** ![GOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@GOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GOM)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/life-on-mars-wasting-time-or-no/179174/76 "2003-06-09T18:02:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElbaliavanU \* > \*\*GOM, I am a firm creationist too, but I don’t think finding life on Mars is gonna happen… > > \*\* No proof either way. Yet. At the rate we are going, it will take years… In my opinion we will eventually find something though: 1. We have most likely already infected the planet ourselves with microscopic life that hitched a ride on a number of US and Russian rockets. 2. There is also the possibility that a large meteorite, or comet, strike on Earth could have blasted tiny chunks of matter off planet that eventually landed on Mars carrying microscopic life. Btw, I’m not expecting to find animals, as you mention in your post, but I could be wrong about that. They would have to be very tough to survive on Mars though. ---
**Author:** ![ElbaliavanU](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@ElbaliavanU](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElbaliavanU)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/life-on-mars-wasting-time-or-no/179174/77 "2003-06-09T20:33:19Z")
OK, I understand what you mean now 🙂 That’s true about the microscopic life coming from the meteorite. But it would have come from earth, like you said. I’m not sure that scientists would go nuts over that, considering that the life was from earth anyway… How fast do you think the microscopic life went from earth to Mars? (I am asking this as a serious question, I’m NOT trying to mock you) Because all life needs oxygen to live, and if the microscopic life forms traveled realtively slow, they would eventually suffocate on their journey. I don’t even know if scientists are looking for alive life forms or dead ones, or if it doesnt matter… If it doesnt matter we’ll probably find something dead that was originally fom earth, and wasn’t originally on Mars when God created it. ---
**Author:** ![Sock\_Munkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Sock\_Munkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sock_Munkey)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/life-on-mars-wasting-time-or-no/179174/78 "2003-06-10T03:58:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElbaliavanU \* > \*\*OK, I understand what you mean now 🙂 > > That’s true about the microscopic life coming from the meteorite. > But it would have come from earth, like you said. I’m not sure that scientists would go nuts over that, considering that the life was from earth anyway… > > How fast do you think the microscopic life went from earth to Mars? (I am asking this as a serious question, I’m NOT trying to mock you) > Because all life needs oxygen to live, and if the microscopic life forms traveled realtively slow, they would eventually suffocate on their journey. > I don’t even know if scientists are looking for alive life forms or dead ones, or if it doesnt matter… If it doesnt matter we’ll probably find something dead that was originally fom earth, and wasn’t originally on Mars when God created it. \*\* Not all life needs oxygen. Plants life off carbon dioxide and in some parts of the ocean whole biological systems live off hot sulfer compounds or methane seeping from the ocean floor. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/life-on-mars-wasting-time-or-no/179174/79 "2003-06-10T12:18:10Z")
I’m not sure why some posters are concerned about micro-organisms from Mars being a threat for life on earth or the other way around. Bacterias which infect us are _adapted_ to us, or at least to earth life forms. If when a conquistador squeezed, millions of indians died, as a poster mentionned, it was because indians were humans, hence a “target” these micro-organisms were perfectly adapted to. It seems incredibly unlikely that any martian germ would be, out of pure luck (as opposed to as a result of millions of years of coexistence), able to interfere in any way with life on earth (assuming that it would even be able to survive in so drastically different conditions), or the reverse. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/life-on-mars-wasting-time-or-no/179174/80 "2003-06-10T14:23:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sock Munkey \* > \*\*Not all life needs oxygen. Plants life off carbon dioxide and in some parts of the ocean whole biological systems live off hot sulfer compounds or methane seeping from the ocean floor. \*\* And some bacteria can go into a cyst-state only to re-animate when the environment becomes favourable again. If the said is _inside_ a chunk-o-planet (be it Earth or Mars) that gets catapulted into space and conditions are just so that (a) it only takes a couple of years to hit the other planet (b) the inside of the chunk gets sealed from outside environment until landing in the other planet (say, the outside melts and cristallyzes, this sealing the insides, and it’s thick enough to stop radiation and absorb reenty heating) and only cracks open upon impact, who knows. This of course has somewhat worse odds than my hitting a $300 million lottery jackpot, but it’s conceivable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/life-on-mars-wasting-time-or-no/179174.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/life-on-mars-wasting-time-or-no/179174.md?page=5)