# Lifeguards refused to give CPR - BYSTANDERS revive 3 year old drowning victim. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 7, 2006, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693 "2006-08-07T15:37:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693/121 "2012-08-25T14:38:40Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > I agree completely. Well said. There are times when risks must be taken if one is to look at oneself in the mirror anymore. To not do these thngs is to abrogate your humanity. And I didn’t read the article, or any posts past this one. May I point out something to everybody who was offended at the lifeguards refusal to jump in unprotected. I do not know the age nor the sex of the lifeguard, but I will point out that if said person has a spouse and possibly children it is possible that they may contract something and die - thusly removing the source of income from the family unit. How would you feel deep down at the core for ‘someone killing your spouse/parent’ that was a total stranger? Ignore the surface ‘for the good of society’ and ‘but it was a child’ and really get into it. The first loyalty that any person has is to their family. Not strangers, but the spouses and children. Hazarding ones self is not something lightly gone into. Yes, they should have had supplies, but I do not fault the person for refusing to hazard themself. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693/122 "2012-08-25T14:45:03Z")
And since this thread was posted, CPR has changed, for this very reason. Now, unless you’re a medical professional (lifeguards are not) WITH appropriate safety equipment on you, CPR is “hands only”. Compressions to the chest, that’s it. No mouth to mouth, no rescue breaths. Turns out it’s more useful to circulate the oxygen that’s already in the system, rather than try to introduce more. This is even MORE true, I believe, in a near-drowning case, when the lungs are presumably full of water and oxygen from rescue breaths would be unable to reach the alveoli anyhow. Now, if you’re\* trained in\* conventional CPR and you have your mouthguard with you, it’s still best for children ages 1-8. If you don’t have your mouthguard with you, then it’s your call. But compression only CPR is better than nothing, even for children, and requires no equipment. So…if you see a 3 year old in the water unresponsive, you pull her out, you call 911 (or whatever Emergency Number works in your area) and you pump on the center of her chest between the nipples, 2 inches deep (that’s 1/3 the depth of the chest cavity, deeper than most people think), to the beat of “Staying Alive”. That’s it. Easy peasy. (If you’re on a loose sand beach, you can put a hardcover book under her back to make it easier to push.) When she starts to throw up, by the way, quickly roll her to one side so she doesn’t breathe the vomit/water back in. As soon as she’s done throwing up, see if she’s breathing now. If so, you’re done. If not, begin pushing again. Continue until help arrives. (And I have absolutely no judgement against those lifeguards from 6 years ago, for the reasons already articulated here by medical professionals. I have a lot of anger against whomever hired those lifeguards, though, for not making sure they had all the training and gear they needed to do their jobs.) ---
**Author:** ![Crab\_Rangoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Crab\_Rangoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crab_Rangoon)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693/123 "2012-08-25T14:49:10Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > And since this thread was posted, CPR has changed, for this very reason. > > Now, unless you’re a medical professional (lifeguards are not) WITH appropriate safety equipment on you, CPR is “hands only”. Compressions to the chest, that’s it. No mouth to mouth, no rescue breaths. Turns out it’s more useful to circulate the oxygen that’s already in the system, rather than try to introduce more. Thank you - I was going to post this before I realized I was reading a thread from SIX YEARS AGO. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693/124 "2012-08-25T14:54:50Z")
It’s a personal call to make and I have to respect their decision. Such decisions are between the person and their god, and such things like this, euthanasia, abortion, and someone (like a police officer) deciding to use deadly force are to me very personal decisions with life long conquences that we are usually given very little time to decide in the grand scheme of things. We are just humans trying to figure out this thing called life, and when something happens like in the OP that person is going to have a long time to figure out if their actions were justified. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693/125 "2012-08-25T15:09:32Z")
you have to drink more than 3 liters of magic johnson’s saliva in order to get aids. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693/126 "2012-08-25T15:20:29Z")
> [@the\_diego](#): > > you have to drink more than 3 liters of magic johnson’s saliva in order to get aids. But very little to get hepatitis. Or pertussis. Or herpes. Or lots of other things. Also, it’s not just saliva. People who are in rough waters often bite the insides of their mouths, causing bleeding. If I have gum disease (as the vast majority of adults have) and I get some blood in my mouth into an open gum, then HIV isn’t so remote a possibility. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693/127 "2012-08-25T15:23:47Z")
> [@Crab\_Rangoon](#): > > Thank you - I was going to post this before I realized I was reading a thread from SIX YEARS AGO. Indeed. I noticed it about 1/3 of the way down the first page. I’ve reported the thread requesting a title edit to reflect that it’s a zombie, since there’s actually been a substantial change to the zeitgeist since this was opened. We’ll see what the mods think. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Freakenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b782af/32.png) [@Freakenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freakenstein)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693/128 "2012-08-25T15:27:12Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > And since this thread was posted, CPR has changed, for this very reason. > > Now, unless you’re a medical professional (lifeguards are not) WITH appropriate safety equipment on you, CPR is “hands only”. > [@WhyNot](#): > > No mouth to mouth, no rescue breaths. Turns out it’s more useful to circulate the oxygen that’s already in the system, rather than try to introduce more. > > When she starts to throw up, by the way, quickly roll her to one side so she doesn’t breathe the vomit/water back in. In fact many people put the victims head in wrong position and end up blowing the air into the stomach instead of lungs. Then pressing may cause throwing up and the victims first breath may suck all that in. So victim drowns in his own vomit, not water. In short, You may kill him with blowing. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693/129 "2012-08-25T15:31:25Z")
> [@Freakenstein](#): > > In fact many people put the victims head in wrong position and end up blowing the air into the stomach instead of lungs. Then pressing may cause throwing up and the victims first breath may suck all that in. So victim drowns in his own vomit, not water. True, although it’s my understanding\* that a drowning victim will often expel water with compressions only, and appear to be “throwing up”, hence the advice to turn the child to one side when that happens. In the case of water in the lungs, it’s not a bug, it’s a feature. 😉 \*From CPR classes; I’ve never been on the scene of a drowning, thank goodness! ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693/130 "2012-08-25T16:14:43Z")
Maybe it’s my background in statistics (or gambling!), but I often approach problems with a probabilistic mindset. Lifeguard could guess there was a 25% chance or so that CPR would save a life. The chance he’d contract a serious disease must have been much much less than 0.1%. For a trained bystander not to give CPR would be reprehensible. For the lifeguard on duty not to give CPR seems outrageous and criminal. ---
**Author:** ![ENugent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@ENugent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ENugent)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693/131 "2012-08-25T16:17:46Z")
I’d sort of forgotten what it was like to have **Dio** in a thread - his posts were what made me notice this was a zombie. Good times, good times. ---
**Author:** ![Crab\_Rangoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Crab\_Rangoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crab_Rangoon)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693/132 "2012-08-25T16:54:13Z")
> [@ENugent](#): > > I’d sort of forgotten what it was like to have **Dio** in a thread - his posts were what made me notice this was a zombie. > > Good times, good times. That’s what clued me in too. In fact, his posts have done that for me a couple of times. Although sometimes later than I would like. I wonder if there is a way to retroactively go back and post something from **Dio** near the beginning of every thread that is, say more than a year old - as a way of flagging old threads? Yes, I KNOW I could look at the date stamp every time I open a thread - but that apparently is not working so well for me… ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693/133 "2012-08-25T17:00:32Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > So…if you see a 3 year old in the water unresponsive, you pull her out, you call 911 (or whatever Emergency Number works in your area) and you pump on the center of her chest between the nipples, 2 inches deep (that’s 1/3 the depth of the chest cavity, deeper than most people think), to the beat of “Staying Alive”. That’s it. Easy peasy. (If you’re on a loose sand beach, you can put a hardcover book under her back to make it easier to push.) > > When she starts to throw up, by the way, quickly roll her to one side so she doesn’t breathe the vomit/water back in. As soon as she’s done throwing up, see if she’s breathing now. If so, you’re done. If not, begin pushing again. Continue until help arrives. [American Heart Association Stayin’Alive video with Ken Jeong](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5hP4DIBCEE) - Disco saves lives! ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693/134 "2012-08-25T17:36:09Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > [American Heart Association Stayin’Alive video with Ken Jeong](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5hP4DIBCEE) - Disco saves lives! Well, they did say Disco would never die…though one suspects it is most certainly into full zombie mode by now. ---
**Author:** ![11811](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/9d8465/32.png) [@11811](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/11811)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693/135 "2012-08-25T19:00:47Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Destroy them. > > Destroy those lfeguards. > Destroy those lfeguards, with a Godzilla-destroying Oxygen Destroyer weapon! and take away their i’s. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693/136 "2012-08-25T19:09:35Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > But very little to get hepatitis. Or pertussis. Or herpes. Or lots of other things. > > . How many people consider this risk when french-kissing for the first time their new boyfriend/girlfriend? If you don’t put on a mouthguard when kissing an adult stranger, stating that MtM to a three years old might be too dangerous doesn’t sound very convincing. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Vorlon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@The\_Vorlon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Vorlon)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693/137 "2012-08-25T19:43:20Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Low but not negligible. When your job consists primarily of seeing to the safety of people whose biggest risk is drowning, administering CPR becomes a distinct possibility. Protection should be available at all times. > > The shame here, however, goes to the MA Dept of D&C. Shame on them for not providing the proper resources. Remeber, you are dealing with the group of mouth-breathers that had the pool of thin soup in Fall River. Semi-clear water is beyond them. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693/138 "2012-08-25T23:12:06Z")
Yeah, right. What if I’m doing chest compressions and the chest breaks open and bites my hands off, like in _The Thing_? Sorry kid, still too risky. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693/139 "2012-08-25T23:25:17Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > How many people consider this risk when french-kissing for the first time their new boyfriend/girlfriend? If you don’t put on a mouthguard when kissing an adult stranger, stating that MtM to a three years old might be too dangerous doesn’t sound very convincing. Chance of getting laid? Soooo worth the risk. Chance of saving some brat? I dunnooo… ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693/140 "2012-08-26T01:25:52Z")
haven’t read all the responses, so it may have already been covered - but is it not possible that they a) did not know how to give CPR without the mouth gaurds? b) were not afraid of what they might get, but instead were protecting the infant (or other person) from what they might give? I’m willing to bet they have regulations/etc from the employer that they are not to give CPR without the proper equipment for a number of reasons - all meant to prevent suits - but in our sue happy world, start to come more commonplace as well as lacking common sense? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693.md?page=8)