# Lifeguards refused to give CPR - BYSTANDERS revive 3 year old drowning victim. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 7, 2006, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693 "2006-08-07T15:37:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693/141 "2012-08-26T08:01:13Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > [American Heart Association Stayin’Alive video with Ken Jeong](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5hP4DIBCEE) - Disco saves lives! The UK has the same message - hands only to the beat of Staying Alive - but the approach is “different” 😃 [British Heart Foundation video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR0aZX1_TD8) with Vinnie Jones (football ‘hard man’ turned actor - _Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels_, _Swordfish_, etc). ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693/142 "2012-08-26T10:10:14Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > How many people consider this risk when french-kissing for the first time their new boyfriend/girlfriend? If you don’t put on a mouthguard when kissing an adult stranger, stating that MtM to a three years old might be too dangerous doesn’t sound very convincing. Chances are, if you’re sucking face with someone they’re not \*complete \*strangers. But if they are ? Yeah, you’re taking risks. One night stands aren’t the healthiest living, yeah ? ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693/143 "2012-08-26T11:48:34Z")
> [@MarcusF](#): > > The UK has the same message - hands only to the beat of Staying Alive - but the approach is “different” 😃 > > [British Heart Foundation video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR0aZX1_TD8) with Vinnie Jones (football ‘hard man’ turned actor - _Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels_, _Swordfish_, etc). Either method is preferable to the other memorable song with the appropriate tempo for the task - Queen’s “Another One Bites the Dust.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693/144 "2012-08-26T14:41:37Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Chance of getting laid? Soooo worth the risk. > > Chance of saving some brat? I dunnooo… You’re going to hell. And so am I for laughing. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693/145 "2012-08-26T16:54:08Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Chances are, if you’re sucking face with someone they’re not \*complete \*strangers. But if they are ? Yeah, you’re taking risks. One night stands aren’t the healthiest living, yeah ? Yeah, but getting to first base with a three year old and having it be perfectly legal , if not downright heroic, is just a once in a lifetime opportunity that nobody should ever pass up. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693/146 "2012-08-26T19:35:14Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Destroy them. > > Destroy those lfeguards. > Destroy those lfeguards, with a Godzilla-destroying Oxygen Destroyer weapon! It’s not like you actually have one of those, Bosda. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693/147 "2012-08-26T19:40:17Z")
> [@Marlitharn](#): > > That being said, it’s surprising (and alarming) how many people will _refuse_ to do CPR, even on their nearest and dearest. If I can’t get a 911 caller to perform mouth-to-mouth, I’ll try to get them to at least do chest compressions, which is better than nothing… A lot better than nothing. A friend of mine had a huge heart attack, was unconscious in his front yard for up to half an hour. A passerby kicked him, and when he didn’t respond, started chest compressions. Kept them up until the EMTs took over. He didn’t wake up for a week, but they brought him back to the hospital from hospice, and he’s up and walking around now. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693/148 "2012-08-26T20:04:59Z")
3 years old? Maybe he was afraid of cooties ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693/149 "2012-08-27T02:06:16Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > if the lifeguards had been doing their jobs in the first place, they’d have kept an eye on the three-year old, fished the kid out _before_ drowning, and it would not have had to wait for a bystander to do their job for them. Im pretty sure bad things can happen, even with very attentive lifeguards. > [@crazyjoe](#): > > Excusde the fuck out of me, but I don’t care if a fricking three year old child has the bubonic fucking plague, and evidenc eof it tattooed all over his body…I’m not letting a damn three year old kid die because I’m afraid of a disease. > > crazyjoe, who has a 3 year old daughter. So you would be willing to leave your three year old without one of her parents so that you can try to save a child that you KNOW has bubonic plague? I pit these ligfeguards because the chances of the child having something communicable was so low and the chances of contracting whatever they might have was also very low so the chances of actually contracting something was miniscule. But if they knew for a fact that this kid had a lethal communicable disease, then I wouldn’t blame them. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Then you’d be a selfish, chickenshit, punk, unworthy of respect. If you could live comfortably with that, you’d be even more of a punk. No, you’re not REQUIRED to risk getting a disease (even though the chances would be low), but wouldn’t make your choice very admirable or ethical. So you would be willing to contract bubonic plague so that you can say you gave a three year old CPR? > [@silenus](#): > > I agree completely. Well said. There are times when risks must be taken if one is to look at oneself in the mirror anymore. To not do these thngs is to abrogate your humanity. Once again, we are talking about a hyypothetical where the kid has bubonic plague and everyone KNOWS he has bubonic plague. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Were the fire fighters and cops who died in the WTC “stupid” for running in there? Why, did they go in without any equipment? ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693/150 "2012-08-27T22:11:53Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > (And I have absolutely no judgement against those lifeguards from 6 years ago, for the reasons already articulated here by medical professionals. I have a lot of anger against whomever hired those lifeguards, though, for not making sure they had all the training and gear they needed to do their jobs.) Ex EMT who later ended up in a position supervising waterslide lifeguards checking in. I must respectfully disagree. EMS types, cops, ER staff, can come into contact with a dozens of people in medical distress in a shift, there is alot of good reasons to avoid potential cross contamination of patients who have a broad spectrum of acute medical problems as well as the potential for infection of the provider. This is something that happens to a typical lifeguard 1-2 times a year tops. A 3y/o being a vector for a major infectious disease? That lifeguard took a bigger chance driving to work. A paramedic doing unprotected M2M on a 3 y/o is a bigger threat to the child than the medic. Having supervised dozens of lifeguard employees over my amusement park years, your average lifeguard, is more interested in a tan and the social possibilities than anyones life or safety. I had a lovely little chat with every new lifeguard about the realities of saving lives and that its not all pretty and rarely looks as cool or smooth as on TV. Part of that discussion was expectations to go into situations that may be dangerous and that they were selected because they were strong swimmers who had been trained to execute their skills under less than ideal circumstances. This may include handling people who are bloody, will barf on you, and will probably be more likely to file a lawsuit for their torn swimsuit or exposing a boob, than thank you for saving them. If this had been one of my lifeguards, that would have been their last day working there. They not only have 4 sheilds in their first aid box, I would expect them to initiate M2M unprotected on a 3 y/o until that box got there if it was going to take more than 1 min from down time to get the sheilds. Thay have some 40 year old guy with fresh needle tracks, I would support their call to wait, little kids out at the beach or at an amusment park water attraction…nope. We fired several lifeguards over the years for refusing to participate in training drills because they “knew their shit and didn’t need training”. One refused to go in the water after being hired because of “all the icky people that have been in it”. No problem, heres your last check, no further need to participate in training or go into the water. Lifeguards to the EMS world are like bad security guards to the world of law enforcement, unfortunately because they are often young and cute, they do not get the disdain they often deserve. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693/151 "2012-08-28T13:55:42Z")
I would feel better if this was a three year old thread revived. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693/152 "2012-08-28T14:16:29Z")
I just hope it doesn’t get closed before \*\*Diogenes \*\*has a chance to answer \*\*Damuri Ajashi’\*\*s pertinent questions. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693/153 "2012-08-28T20:46:43Z")
Well, because I started this thread, I figured I should post to its resurrection. Anybody click on that link in the OP? Well I did and it no longer works. I tried to find _any_ working link to the story but found nothing. ☹ Not that I’m saying this thread is a zombie, but I believe I first read about this story on a wall painting in France’s [Chauvet Cave](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chauvet_Cave). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693/154 "2012-09-30T09:00:57Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > The first loyalty that any person has is to their family. Not strangers. No. Not at all. Your first duty is to do what is right. The only reason why it is often moral to care about your family first is that, most often, the affect you can have on others is minimal compared to the effect you can have on your family. You have a duty to do what is right before doing what is good for you family. And, as a lifeguard, part of what’s right is saving people. I’d fire a lifeguard that did this, and I wouldn’t trust someone who thinks that’s the right thing to do with my health. If you’re worried about your family so much that you think the risks of being a lifeguard are too dangerous, you don’t become a lifeguard. If you’re too dumb to carry around a mask, that’s your fault, and you do CPR without it and blame yourself if you get sick. And most of those illnesses won’t kill you, anyways. Why is you not getting a cold worth a child dying? And, note, none of this has anything to do with the fact that bystanders are told no longer to do CPR. The point is that these people didn’t do it. That includes chest compressions. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693/155 "2012-09-30T12:31:59Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > No. Not at all. Your first duty is to do what is right. The only reason why it is often moral to care about your family first is that, most often, the affect you can have on others is minimal compared to the effect you can have on your family. You revived a thread that had already been zombified at least once and had lain dormant for a month just to add this to the already-ongoing pontification? Did you not have enough irritating things at hand, that you had to search old posts in the Pit for other things to piss you off? ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693/156 "2012-09-30T12:49:58Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > You revived a thread that had already been zombified at least once and had lain dormant for a month just to add this to the already-ongoing pontification? Did you not have enough irritating things at hand, that you had to search old posts in the Pit for other things to piss you off? The thing about CPR is, you have to keep on doing it once you start. This thread will be re-animated periodically until the SDMB finally draws its last agonal gasp or a Moderator stops the Code… ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693/157 "2012-10-02T04:14:09Z")
If this thread was a family member, it would already be dead. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693/158 "2012-10-02T17:48:50Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > The thing about CPR is, you have to keep on doing it once you start. This thread will be re-animated periodically until the SDMB finally draws its last agonal gasp or a Moderator stops the Code… Its like a cheyne-stokes thread [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lifeguards-refused-to-give-cpr-bystanders-revive-3-year-old-drowning-victim/367693.md?page=7)