# Light Bulbs - Why should we switch to lights nobody likes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 12, 2008, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-bulbs-why-should-we-switch-to-lights-nobody-likes/433256 "2008-01-12T05:16:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sockmunkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Sockmunkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sockmunkey)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-bulbs-why-should-we-switch-to-lights-nobody-likes/433256/41 "2008-01-13T21:26:01Z")
Even at four times the cost of an incandescent CFLs still aren’t all _that_ expensive and prices are going down. Personally, my money is still on LEDs being the eventual winners once the technical foibles are hammered out. ---
**Author:** ![AshJW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AshJW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AshJW)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2008, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-bulbs-why-should-we-switch-to-lights-nobody-likes/433256/42 "2008-01-14T02:05:26Z")
[QUOTE=Una Persson] What is the basis for that image? The link for the source underneath it on Wikipedia goes to a “page not found” (of course, it’s Wikipedia…). It does not say if it’s just comparing coal power plant emissions alone, if it adjusts for the fact that coal power is about 50-55% of net generation, it does not say if it adjusts for the very soon upcoming mandatory 70% reductions in mercury emissions that will be applied to power plants, etc. This page gives comparative mercury emissions adjusting for coal power generation of 70%, and also has a table which shows comparative mercury content of common items. However, I have to say that aside from watch batteries, the other items are less and less common to ever end up in landfills, so the chart could be a bit misleading. [http://www.cdphe.state.co.us/hm/mercury/cflfactsheet.pdf](http://www.cdphe.state.co.us/hm/mercury/cflfactsheet.pdf) And here’s a little bit better analysis than the Wikipedia graphic: [http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/home\_journal\_news/4217864.html](http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/home_journal_news/4217864.html) Note as well that the mercury content of CFLs is expected to drop as well, due to advances in technology. IIRC, OSRAM Sylvania is expected to reduce mercury content of CFLs to about half what it currently is within a year or two. [/QUOTE] I would assume the wikipedia graphic was made by someone who found the mercury emissions per kWh for a coal plant somewhere and worked out the numbers from that. Obviously it’s a really simplistic graph which would have to vary for different places based on the proportion of coal power & the age and type of the coal plants in their electricity supply, i.e. places like Tasmania where most of the generation capacity is hydroelectric, vs. the old brown coal plants in Victoria. I just put it in there to quickly illustrate the point that you need to take into account the mercury emissions saved by using less electricity. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2008, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-bulbs-why-should-we-switch-to-lights-nobody-likes/433256/43 "2008-01-14T02:55:42Z")
To read this thread, you would think no one ever made a lousy incandescent light bulb! Yeah, quality varies with brand, and retailer. Wow, who would have thought?! Tris ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2008, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-bulbs-why-should-we-switch-to-lights-nobody-likes/433256/44 "2008-01-14T03:15:02Z")
[QUOTE=Triskadecamus] To read this thread, you would think no one ever made a lousy incandescent light bulb! Yeah, quality varies with brand, and retailer. Wow, who would have thought?! Tris [/QUOTE] defective incandescent bulbs don’t generally cause a fire. There is a problem with [fluorescent bulbs](http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2004/12/02/light-bulbs-fires041202.html). I’ve personally experienced this in a shop light. It was something out of a cheesy sci fi movie. It flickered then buzzed loudly and then popped in a shower of sparks. Since I was holding it at the time I’m probably a little more biased and will never buy a dimmer version of one. I specifically use CFL’s in shop lights because the cooler temp is less likely to damage something but I will never leave one unattended. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2008, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-bulbs-why-should-we-switch-to-lights-nobody-likes/433256/45 "2008-01-14T03:17:51Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] defective incandescent bulbs don’t generally cause a fire. [/QUOTE] Right, perfectly functioning ones are capable of doing that already. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2008, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-bulbs-why-should-we-switch-to-lights-nobody-likes/433256/46 "2008-01-14T03:23:46Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] Right, perfectly functioning ones are capable of doing that already. [/QUOTE] Absolutely, a not insignificant numer of fires are caused by draping something over an incandescent bulb, or putting a much brighter bulb in a lamp not rated for it. I had a very small fire in my old house caused by someone throwing their polyester shirt over a lamp, and it catching on fire. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2008, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-bulbs-why-should-we-switch-to-lights-nobody-likes/433256/47 "2008-01-14T03:30:28Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] defective incandescent bulbs don’t generally cause a fire. [/QUOTE] Like posters before me, I’m baffled why you would think this. Incandescent bulbs get really really hot, hot enough to set things on fire. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2008, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-bulbs-why-should-we-switch-to-lights-nobody-likes/433256/48 "2008-01-14T03:32:53Z")
[QUOTE=Siege] One other problem is the light fixture in my dining room takes candelabra bulbs which have narrower bases. According to the gentleman who helped me at Home Depot (he was very helpful, by the way), CFCs aren’t made with candelabra bases yet. [/QUOTE] You can in Australia and it is rare indeed that a type of merchandise is available here and not available in the US. However, I have found that much to my annoyance the candelabra bulbs are sold (here) as “fancies” which seems to mean smaller but more expensive. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2008, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-bulbs-why-should-we-switch-to-lights-nobody-likes/433256/49 "2008-01-14T03:33:19Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] Absolutely, a not insignificant numer of fires are caused by draping something over an incandescent bulb, or putting a much brighter bulb in a lamp not rated for it. I had a very small fire in my old house caused by someone throwing their polyester shirt over a lamp, and it catching on fire. [/QUOTE] Yes but flaming morons aside, an incandescent bulb doesn’t burst into flames. I agree that they burn hotter and pose a Darwinian hazard. Those little quartz bulbs are even worse. But neither of them actually burst into flames on their own. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2008, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-bulbs-why-should-we-switch-to-lights-nobody-likes/433256/50 "2008-01-14T03:35:04Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] But neither of them actually burst into flames on their own. [/QUOTE] Sitting in a box at Target, no. In ceiling fixtures, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2008, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-bulbs-why-should-we-switch-to-lights-nobody-likes/433256/51 "2008-01-14T03:35:17Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] But neither of them actually burst into flames on their own. [/QUOTE] Nevertheless, far more fires have been started by incandescents than by fluorescents, even accounting for the longer history of incandescent lighting. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2008, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-bulbs-why-should-we-switch-to-lights-nobody-likes/433256/52 "2008-01-14T04:06:21Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] Nevertheless, far more fires have been started by incandescents than by fluorescents, even accounting for the longer history of incandescent lighting. [/QUOTE] That’s not a correct statement. Far more fires have been started by fluorescents than incandescents. What you mean to say is that far more fires envolve incandescents than by fluorescents. ---
**Author:** ![ManiacMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b782af/32.png) [@ManiacMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ManiacMan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2008, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-bulbs-why-should-we-switch-to-lights-nobody-likes/433256/53 "2008-01-14T04:11:23Z")
Where are all those CF bulbs made? China? I looked at all the the CFs here at my local Lowe’s and they were all made in China. The plot thickens… ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2008, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-bulbs-why-should-we-switch-to-lights-nobody-likes/433256/54 "2008-01-14T04:18:38Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] What you mean to say is that far more fires envolve incandescents than by fluorescents. [/QUOTE] No. That’s not what I mean to say. If I’d meant to say that, then that’s what I would have said. I stand by my original statement as posted. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2008, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-bulbs-why-should-we-switch-to-lights-nobody-likes/433256/55 "2008-01-14T04:20:27Z")
Keep in mind I like the CF bulbs and use them. I don’t trust the dimmer versions and all my CF’s are in fixtures that could theoretically take the abuse of a bad bulb. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2008, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-bulbs-why-should-we-switch-to-lights-nobody-likes/433256/56 "2008-01-14T04:21:28Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] No. That’s not what I mean to say. If I’d meant to say that, then that’s what I would have said. I stand by my original statement as posted. [/QUOTE] Then you’d be wrong. Incandescents do not cause fires by themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2008, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-bulbs-why-should-we-switch-to-lights-nobody-likes/433256/57 "2008-01-14T04:26:46Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] Then you’d be wrong. Incandescents do not cause fires by themselves. [/QUOTE] No, _you’re_ wrong. Plenty of fires have been started by people installing an incandescent bulb in a fixture not rated to handle its wattage. I know of no cases of this happening with a CFL, despite occasional reports of smoking following bulb failure. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2008, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-bulbs-why-should-we-switch-to-lights-nobody-likes/433256/58 "2008-01-14T04:42:18Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] No, _you’re_ wrong. Plenty of fires have been started by people installing an incandescent bulb in a fixture not rated to handle its wattage. I know of no cases of this happening with a CFL, despite occasional reports of smoking following bulb failure. [/QUOTE] Sigh. The cause of the fire in your example would be human failure, not failure of the bulb. And if you looked at the web site I posted you’ll see that CFL’s will catch fire by themselves, when properly installed. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2008, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-bulbs-why-should-we-switch-to-lights-nobody-likes/433256/59 "2008-01-14T06:33:18Z")
The short point is that usage of incandescents leads to more fires than usage of CFL’s. Indeed, back here in the real world ISTM that as production of CFL’s is perfected the number of fires caused by them is likely to go down. Meanwhile, incandescent bulbs will remain very hot, and people will remain imperfect, and more fires will involve incandescents than CFL’s. The distinction you draw is therefore of less than no importance, and the point you originally made, insofar as it seemed to be framed as a negative feature of CFL’s, of no substance. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2008, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-bulbs-why-should-we-switch-to-lights-nobody-likes/433256/60 "2008-01-14T13:46:35Z")
[QUOTE=Siege] One other problem is the light fixture in my dining room takes candelabra bulbs which have narrower bases. According to the gentleman who helped me at Home Depot (he was very helpful, by the way), CFCs aren’t made with candelabra bases yet. [/QUOTE] ’ They have them, I have a few of those, they work OK. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-bulbs-why-should-we-switch-to-lights-nobody-likes/433256.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-bulbs-why-should-we-switch-to-lights-nobody-likes/433256.md?page=4)