# Light fixture not on any circuit breaker? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 5, 2014, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-fixture-not-on-any-circuit-breaker/680595 "2014-02-05T19:40:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-fixture-not-on-any-circuit-breaker/680595/21 "2014-02-06T02:07:22Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > I just watched the video on that link and I find it quite unbelievable that you can cram all those twisted wires, with uninsulated ground wires, into the back of a switch. > > American wiring is very different to ours. The ground wires are uninsulated for a good reason. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-fixture-not-on-any-circuit-breaker/680595/22 "2014-02-06T02:21:29Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > we learn to be careful. We also learn to push on the switch really hard, swear at it, start over when one of the wire nuts falls off and say ‘aw fuck it no one’ll notice’ when you’re done and it’s a little bit crooked…but dammit it all the screws on the faceplate aren’t perfectly vertical (even if you cracked the faceplate and had to run back to home depot for a new one in the process). ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-fixture-not-on-any-circuit-breaker/680595/23 "2014-02-06T02:23:26Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > (even if you cracked the faceplate and had to run back to home depot for a new one in the process). Pro-tip: use some kitchen/bathroom caulk to fill gaps between a faceplate and an uneven wall. That way you don’t smash it. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-fixture-not-on-any-circuit-breaker/680595/24 "2014-02-06T02:34:02Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Pro-tip: use some kitchen/bathroom caulk to fill gaps between a faceplate and an uneven wall. That way you don’t smash it. I’ve learned it’s better to back the screw off a quarter turn then to try to tighten it a quarter turn. Loosening it a quarter turn never results in a loose faceplate but tightening it tends to crack it. Oh, and those ‘unbreakable’ faceplates.’ Those are garbage. It’s likes someone actually made the mold incorrectly so to actually get them flush to the wall you have to make them so tight the bow out (because they’re a bit flexible). ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-fixture-not-on-any-circuit-breaker/680595/25 "2014-02-06T07:16:40Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > We also learn to push on the switch really hard, swear at it, start over when one of the wire nuts falls off and say ‘aw fuck it no one’ll notice’ when you’re done and it’s a little bit crooked…but dammit it all the screws on the faceplate aren’t perfectly vertical (even if you cracked the faceplate and had to run back to home depot for a new one in the process). You’ve been spying on me! ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-fixture-not-on-any-circuit-breaker/680595/26 "2014-02-06T15:33:33Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > American wiring is very different to ours. > [@johnpost](#): > > we learn to be careful. They learned to treat everything as if it was made by Lucas. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-fixture-not-on-any-circuit-breaker/680595/27 "2014-02-06T15:34:55Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > The ground wires are uninsulated for a good reason. Other than that they don’t need to be insulated, what’s the good reason? ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-fixture-not-on-any-circuit-breaker/680595/28 "2014-02-06T16:08:45Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > The ground wires are uninsulated for a good reason. grounding wires may be uninsulated in nonmetallic cable and some other cable types. insulated grounding wires are perfectly fine and are pulled through conduit. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-fixture-not-on-any-circuit-breaker/680595/29 "2014-02-06T16:37:37Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > They learned to treat everything as if it was made by Lucas. “The switch shot first!” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-fixture-not-on-any-circuit-breaker/680595/30 "2014-02-06T17:29:33Z")
One good reason to leave ground wires uninsulated is that it makes them instantly recognizable. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-fixture-not-on-any-circuit-breaker/680595/31 "2014-02-06T17:31:20Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > I just watched the video on that link and I find it quite unbelievable that you can cram all those twisted wires, with uninsulated ground wires, into the back of a switch. > > American wiring is very different to ours. wouldn’t bother me if we stocked junction boxes with junctions built into them like I see in Europe. About the only way to clean it up is to use [this](http://www.cableorganizer.com/ideal-industries/in-sure-wire-connectors/?gcssku=ID-30-1034&gclid=COinyreDuLwCFUJo7AodHhkAHQ) type of connector. I’d prefer something with a little more contact surface with a screw to tighten it. I’ve used them before in really crowded boxes. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-fixture-not-on-any-circuit-breaker/680595/32 "2014-02-06T17:37:40Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > We also learn to push on the switch really hard, swear at it, start over when one of the wire nuts falls off and say ‘aw fuck it no one’ll notice’ when you’re done and it’s a little bit crooked…but dammit it all the screws on the faceplate aren’t perfectly vertical (even if you cracked the faceplate and had to run back to home depot for a new one in the process). If it’s a really crowded box I tape the wire nuts so they don’t back off while trying to smush them all back in. I’ve seen many professional installations where the wire nuts are loose from what appears to be a lot of cramming to get them all to fit in the junction box. Once the wires are properly twisted the nut is just an insulator but it needs to stay in place so nothing grounds to it. You know, those bare ground wires we Yanks use. I always try to separate them out so they don’t start mating with each other. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-fixture-not-on-any-circuit-breaker/680595/33 "2014-02-06T17:56:21Z")
there are small nuts and big nuts. if a nut gets big and still is bursting then you need two nuts to get some relief. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-fixture-not-on-any-circuit-breaker/680595/34 "2014-02-06T17:57:20Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > “The switch shot first!” We need a head-bang smiley, but this will have to do: :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-fixture-not-on-any-circuit-breaker/680595/35 "2014-02-06T18:04:42Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > there are small nuts and big nuts. if a nut gets big and still is bursting then you need two nuts to get some relief. [Bon Scott]But I’ve got the biggest nuts of them all[/Bon Scott] ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-fixture-not-on-any-circuit-breaker/680595/36 "2014-02-06T18:36:54Z")
Just in case this isn’t obvious: Switch each breaker off, in sequence, until the light goes out. Then, leaving that breaker off, switch them back on in sequence until the light goes on. Switch that 2nd breaker back off. Turn all the others back on, in sequence. If it goes off again, you’ve identified a 3rd breaker; switch it off, rinse, and repeat. Now you have the rest of your house powered up, and have identified (and switched off) all affected circuits. If you get to the last breaker and the light is still on (unlikely) try the house main. HOWEVER … um … be aware that sometimes when you switch a main off, it doesn’t come back on, so have a means to contact an electrician. That is, don’t do this on a Sunday when it’s -20F. Chances are good you’re OK, but I’ve seen it happen, and I haven’t switched a main very often. (It was a contractor’s inspection, and I sure did thank that contractor after buying the house, when I had to flip the main, knowing it had recently been replaced.) If the light stays on after killing the main, then run your refrigerator on that circuit, because it’s probably the neighbors! ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-fixture-not-on-any-circuit-breaker/680595/37 "2014-02-06T19:37:59Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > wouldn’t bother me if we stocked junction boxes with junctions built into them like I see in Europe. About the only way to clean it up is to use [this](http://www.cableorganizer.com/ideal-industries/in-sure-wire-connectors/?gcssku=ID-30-1034&gclid=COinyreDuLwCFUJo7AodHhkAHQ) type of connector. I’d prefer something with a little more contact surface with a screw to tighten it. I’ve used them before in really crowded boxes. The only time I used one of those I had, IIRC, 7 wires (times three conductors) to tie together and I’m not quite skilled enough with my linemans to make a nice tight twist like an electrician can and I didn’t want a ton of pigtails to sort out some day if I ever had to add to it. They work nice, but like you said all you have is a little flap of metal with the edge against the wire. It’s like to see something better, but it works well I guess. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-fixture-not-on-any-circuit-breaker/680595/38 "2014-02-06T23:51:24Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > One good reason to leave ground wires uninsulated is that it makes them instantly recognizable. One good reason to insulate them, at least the part that’s exposed in a junction box etc, is to be sure that it won’t short to any live wire. Especially when it gets crammed into one of those switch boxes you use. An example of how we do it over here [http://www.lightwiring.co.uk/old-multi-point-radial-lighting-diagram-using-junction-boxes/](http://www.lightwiring.co.uk/old-multi-point-radial-lighting-diagram-using-junction-boxes/) ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-fixture-not-on-any-circuit-breaker/680595/39 "2014-02-07T00:06:01Z")
If you’ve got bare live wires, the problem isn’t with exposed ground wires. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-fixture-not-on-any-circuit-breaker/680595/40 "2014-02-07T00:13:08Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > If you’ve got bare live wires, the problem isn’t with exposed ground wires. Nah, that’s not what he means. Sometimes the bare ground can catch a switch terminal or the part of the live wire that you stripped to wrap around a screw or something else live in the box that’s exposed, it happens. You think everything is alright then you flip the breaker on and it turns right back off, flip it on again and it just turns it self right back off again, so you go and pull the box apart and if you’re lucky you can spot the problem, if you’re less lucky you’ll be able to just guess at what happened (or see some black marks) or you’re even less lucky you’ll have no idea at all what happened and spend a half hour taking everything apart and starting over. Hopefully, it’s somewhere in the middle, like you flip the power on while everything is opened up and the breaker doesn’t turn back off and you can figure it out from there. You know how you learn this…you learn it the first time you pull an outlet out of a junction box while it’s live. You learn real quick those screws on the side will bite you and you have to pull from the top and the bottom and not the left and right. The moral of the story is, there’s live things in a junction box that aren’t insulated. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-fixture-not-on-any-circuit-breaker/680595.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/light-fixture-not-on-any-circuit-breaker/680595.md?page=3)