# ...like a woman scorned \[pronounciation\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 18, 2011, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/like-a-woman-scorned-pronounciation/568119 "2011-01-18T20:55:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Kamrusepas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8c91f0/32.png) [@Kamrusepas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamrusepas)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/like-a-woman-scorned-pronounciation/568119/1 "2011-01-18T20:55:06Z")
I love this saying, but something very minor has got me wondering. Now, the original quote is: \* Heav’n has no rage, like love to hatred turn’d, nor Hell a fury like a woman scorn’d\* What bothers me is that this in no way rhymes. Does the original work perhaps have alternating lines that rhyme (I know there’s a word for it but I cannot find it in my head at this time)? Was it not supposed to rhyme? Because of a design error in my brain, I can only enjoy poems that rhyme ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Rocketeer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocketeer/32/4437_2.png) [@Rocketeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocketeer)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/like-a-woman-scorned-pronounciation/568119/2 "2011-01-18T21:04:19Z")
> [@Kamrusepas](#): > > Because of a design error in my brain, I can only enjoy poems that rhyme ☹ You’re doomed to miss out on a lot of great poetry, then. 😃 Rhyming in poetry is for amateurs, the rubbish you read in church newsletters. The real poets never worry too much about rhyme; they worry about meter and word choice instead. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/like-a-woman-scorned-pronounciation/568119/3 "2011-01-18T21:06:38Z")
Pronunciation, dude. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/like-a-woman-scorned-pronounciation/568119/4 "2011-01-18T21:11:54Z")
It most certainly rhymes “in a way”; half-rhyme, also called sprung rhyme or slant rhyme, is quite common in English. As far as I know, these two words never rhymed perfectly, and weren’t meant to. ---
**Author:** ![Kamrusepas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8c91f0/32.png) [@Kamrusepas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamrusepas)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/like-a-woman-scorned-pronounciation/568119/5 "2011-01-18T21:12:19Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Pronunciation, dude. Dude, you just blew my mind. I had never noticed there’s no second O in that word :eek: Thank you, I must admit English is not my first language. I’m not a dude either 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/like-a-woman-scorned-pronounciation/568119/6 "2011-01-18T21:13:46Z")
Back in the day, it’s possible that those vowel sounds might have been closer sounding than they might appear at first glance. In some regional dialects today, there are some relics of “or” pronounced as “ar” (e.g., “harse” for “horse”). If you pronounce “scorned” as “scarned,” it is a little closer to rhyming to “turned.” And maybe not. . . . ---
**Author:** ![Bootis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@Bootis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootis)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/like-a-woman-scorned-pronounciation/568119/7 "2011-01-18T21:14:41Z")
> [@Kamrusepas](#): > > What bothers me is that this in no way rhymes. 😕 _turn’d_ and _scorn’d_ rhyme in a way that, say, _turn’d_ and _Chimichanga_ don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/like-a-woman-scorned-pronounciation/568119/8 "2011-01-18T21:20:29Z")
> [@Kamrusepas](#): > > Dude, you just blew my mind. I had never noticed there’s no second O in that word :eek: Pronounce, announce, denounce, all with the same Latin root, all lose the second “o” when they form the noun. Just another POS English spelling rule, and I have the advantage it’s my mother tongue and I’ve had plenty of time to get used to it. > [@Kamrusepas](#): > > Thank you, I must admit English is not my first language. I’m not a dude either 😃 [typical male Doper]Sooo… how you doin’?[/tmD] ---
**Author:** ![J\_Cubed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@J\_Cubed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/J_Cubed)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/like-a-woman-scorned-pronounciation/568119/9 "2011-01-18T22:20:32Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > [typical male Doper]Sooo… how you doin’?[/tmD] Be careful where you take this; you know what they say about a woman scorn’d… ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/like-a-woman-scorned-pronounciation/568119/10 "2011-01-18T23:06:48Z")
[Here it is in its original context.](http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=U3ACAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA46#v=onepage&q&f=false) As you can see, none of the lines rhyme (or if any do, it is by chance). Congreve appears to written in non-rhyming iambic pentameter, i.e., blank verse, the same verse form used, most of the time, by Shakespeare. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/like-a-woman-scorned-pronounciation/568119/11 "2011-01-18T23:12:23Z")
> [@J\_Cubed](#): > > Be careful where you take this; you know what they say about a woman scorn’d… She has a design error in her brain that only allows her to enjoy poetry that rhymes? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/like-a-woman-scorned-pronounciation/568119/12 "2011-01-18T23:37:29Z")
> [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](#): > > Back in the day, it’s possible that those vowel sounds might have been closer sounding than they might appear at first glance. In some regional dialects today, there are some relics of “or” pronounced as “ar” (e.g., “harse” for “horse”). If you pronounce “scorned” as “scarned,” it is a little closer to rhyming to “turned.” > > And maybe not. . . . … maybe, as in North East English dialects today, “turned” was pronounced “torned”. Though just as likely, as you say, not. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/like-a-woman-scorned-pronounciation/568119/13 "2011-01-19T00:27:12Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > [Here it is in its original context.](http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=U3ACAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA46#v=onepage&q&f=false) As you can see, none of the lines rhyme (or if any do, it is by chance). Congreve appears to written in non-rhyming iambic pentameter, i.e., blank verse, the same verse form used, most of the time, by Shakespeare. You needed to provide a bit more context: [QUOTE=Congreve] Yes, thou shalt know, spite of thy past Distress, And all those Ills which thou so long hast mourn’d; Heav’n has no Rage, like Love to Hatred turn’d, Nor Hell a Fury, like a Woman scorn’d. [/QUOTE] Although it’s blank verse, it’s the end of a scene, and it’s quite common to have a rhyming couplet at the end of the scene. Congreve almost does this: the third last line (“mourn’d”) and last line (“scorn’d”) do rhyme, and that’s enough to provide a rhyming pair of lines at the end of the scene, together with a very memorable (obviously!) closing phrase. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/like-a-woman-scorned-pronounciation/568119/14 "2011-01-19T00:53:14Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Although it’s blank verse, it’s the end of a scene, and it’s quite common to have a rhyming couplet at the end of the scene. Congreve almost does this: the third last line (“mourn’d”) and last line (“scorn’d”) do rhyme, and that’s enough to provide a rhyming pair of lines at the end of the scene, together with a very memorable (obviously!) closing phrase. Though there are those who would pronounce “mourn’d” as “moorn’d”, rather than “morn’d”, wrecking the rhyme again. Looking up Congreve on Wikipedia, I see he was born in Yorkshire, raised in Ireland, and living in London – I couldn’t predict with any certainty how someone with that background _today_ might pronounce those words, and the accents have changed a good deal since the 17th century. It’s entirely possible that for him, they all rhymed – or sounded less alike than they do to (some of) us now. ---
**Author:** ![Kamrusepas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8c91f0/32.png) [@Kamrusepas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamrusepas)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/like-a-woman-scorned-pronounciation/568119/15 "2011-01-19T12:22:55Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > You needed to provide a bit more context: > > > [@](#): > > > > _Yes, thou shalt know, spite of thy past Distress, > > And all those Ills which thou so long hast mourn’d; > > Heav’n has no Rage, like Love to Hatred turn’d, > > Nor Hell a Fury, like a Woman scorn’d._ > > Although it’s blank verse, it’s the end of a scene, and it’s quite common to have a rhyming couplet at the end of the scene. Congreve almost does this: the third last line (“mourn’d”) and last line (“scorn’d”) do rhyme, and that’s enough to provide a rhyming pair of lines at the end of the scene, together with a very memorable (obviously!) closing phrase. Ah, now this does ease my mind a little 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/like-a-woman-scorned-pronounciation/568119/16 "2011-01-19T15:22:37Z")
This little piggy went to market, This little piggy stayed home, This little piggy had roast beef, And this little piggy had none, THIS little piggy went wee wee wee wee all the way home I always feel compelled to rhyme home with none by altering one of them, it’s a genetic problem I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/like-a-woman-scorned-pronounciation/568119/17 "2011-01-19T16:43:36Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Although it’s blank verse, it’s the end of a scene, and it’s quite common to have a rhyming couplet at the end of the scene. Ah, ya beat me to it. Every act (not scene) in that work ends with a rhyming couplet which, as you note, was common at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/like-a-woman-scorned-pronounciation/568119/18 "2011-01-19T22:39:03Z")
Weird. I was about to ask a question along these lines. I’m currently reading A Misummer Night’s Dream. Shakespeare often has rhyming verse in the play, and then it comes to a couple of rhyming lines where one ends in _here_ and the other in _there_. No problem; there rhyming with here is common in my own dialect. But then, further into the verse, he rhymes _there_ again with a word like _hair_, implying its modern standard English pronunciation. So, which pronunciation was the standard pronunciation in Shakespeare’s time? ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/like-a-woman-scorned-pronounciation/568119/19 "2011-01-19T23:46:05Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Weird. I was about to ask a question along these lines. I’m currently reading A Misummer Night’s Dream. Shakespeare often has rhyming verse in the play, and then it comes to a couple of rhyming lines where one ends in _here_ and the other in _there_. No problem; there rhyming with here is common in my own dialect. But then, further into the verse, he rhymes _there_ again with a word like _hair_, implying its modern standard English pronunciation. So, which pronunciation was the standard pronunciation in Shakespeare’s time? As I understand it, there’s no way to know for sure, but probably neither. Moreover, there very likely wasn’t a standard as such anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/like-a-woman-scorned-pronounciation/568119/20 "2011-01-20T14:39:57Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Shakespeare often has rhyming verse in the play, and then it comes to a couple of rhyming lines where one ends in _here_ and the other in _there_. No problem; there rhyming with here is common in my own dialect. But then, further into the verse, he rhymes _there_ again with a word like _hair_, implying its modern standard English pronunciation. So, which pronunciation was the standard pronunciation in Shakespeare’s time? Maybe “there” had its modern pronunciation, and “here” was pronounced like “hair”? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/like-a-woman-scorned-pronounciation/568119.md?page=2)