# Likeable, collegial President of Detroit School Board can barely read or write - Issue or not? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 7, 2010, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likeable-collegial-president-of-detroit-school-board-can-barely-read-or-write-issue-or-not/531567 "2010-03-07T00:17:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2010, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likeable-collegial-president-of-detroit-school-board-can-barely-read-or-write-issue-or-not/531567/21 "2010-03-07T11:17:37Z")
At the very least he should go get himself educated. You know, as um,… _an example!_ So he doesn’t look like a hypocrite in front of the student body. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2010, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likeable-collegial-president-of-detroit-school-board-can-barely-read-or-write-issue-or-not/531567/22 "2010-03-07T14:24:25Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > You gave an example of poor verbal skill and then immediately said that this person was a superb verbal communicator. I didn’t give any example whatsoever. [QUOTE=astro;1219642it0] Most people tend to write as they speak and speak as they write. [/QUOTE] No they don’t. Transcriptions of oral communication rarely look anything like written communication. Either way - I agree that this guy shouldn’t be in this position, as it’s a terrible example to set, and surely there’s someone else out there more suitable for the job. ---
**Author:** ![crazyjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@crazyjoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazyjoe)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2010, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likeable-collegial-president-of-detroit-school-board-can-barely-read-or-write-issue-or-not/531567/23 "2010-03-07T14:35:29Z")
I think everyone’s overlooking one thing when they say “If the guy can do his job, this shouldn’t be cause for firing him.” How many of you have heard about the award-winning Detroit School system? Tops among school systems in large cities? Well that’s because we don’t have awards, and we’re not tops at anything except turnin out illiterate undereducated goons. The entire Detroit school system could be replaced with statues made of dog poop and I don’t think most people would notice. And I don’t trust any of his supposed colleagues either. There is so much corruption and backscratching in Detroit that it’s impossible to tell what a legitimate opinion is. ---
**Author:** ![Pray\_for\_peace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Pray\_for\_peace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pray_for_peace)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2010, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likeable-collegial-president-of-detroit-school-board-can-barely-read-or-write-issue-or-not/531567/24 "2010-03-07T14:42:34Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > At the very least he should go get himself educated. > > You know, as um,.. _an example!_ So he doesn’t look like a hypocrite in front of the student body. Maybe I’m being whooshed here, but the article mentions that he is a college graduate, and it’s implicit that he has a learning disability. > [@](#): > > Mathis and some of his supporters say his story is about someone who manages his limitations, just as others manage physical disabilities. > “Instead of telling them that they can’t write and won’t be anything, I show that cannot stop you,” Mathis says. “If Detroit Public Schools can allow kids to dream, with whatever weakness they have, that’s something. …It’s not about what you don’t have. It’s what you can do.” I would say that now that this story has hit the news, it would be OK for him to continue on the school board IF he comes forward to say that he made a mistake in sending out those emails, and that he will start having someone proofread his written communications. If he continued to send out ungrammatical written communications, that would be sending the wrong message to the students. As long as he is willing to admit that proper grammar and good written communication skills are important, it would be OK with me if he were to continue in his position on the school board. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2010, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likeable-collegial-president-of-detroit-school-board-can-barely-read-or-write-issue-or-not/531567/25 "2010-03-07T15:00:05Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > You know, I feel for the guy. He’s apparently an unusually effective, hard-working and well liked person with an excellent work ethic and who seems to do a very good job in what he’s supposed to do. > > But at the same time he’s in a field where people are supposed to be educated. What kind of example does he set to motivate kids to work hard and learn how to read, speak and write? He doesn’t. They’ll think hell, why bust my ass, this guy can’t string together a coherent sentence and look where he got. > [@Shakes](#): > > At the very least he should go get himself educated. I agree with Starving Artist and Shakes on this one. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2010, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likeable-collegial-president-of-detroit-school-board-can-barely-read-or-write-issue-or-not/531567/26 "2010-03-07T15:05:23Z")
My dad is a very good speaker but an awful writer. I mean, he’s coherent, but his style and grammar are awful. That’s because he doesn’t write like he speaks. It might be because he grew up in the 30’s, but his writing style reminds me of the weird stilted prose you find in Civil War soldiers’ letters. Badly punctuated. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2010, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likeable-collegial-president-of-detroit-school-board-can-barely-read-or-write-issue-or-not/531567/27 "2010-03-07T15:08:14Z")
I don’t know where the idea came from that good speakers are necessarily good writers. Speaking is something you pick up automatically. Writing is something that had to be specifically taught. There are many learning disorders that deal with the difference between these two skills. Furthermore, a person who speaks doesn’t have to deal with punctuation, capitalization, or spelling. my mom writes like this on facebook she doesnt even know where periods fit all the time. She’s always having me proofread everything. But she’s as coherent in speech as anyone I know. And she has some of the best people skills I’ve ever known: she’s capable of converting strangers to friends in just a few minutes. As for writing like you talk: I know I don’t. The process of putting things together is completely different when you don’t have instant communication back, or nonverbal cues to know if you’re saying the right thing. I do try to make my writing sound like me, but I find this is a skill that a lot of people do not have. As for whether this guy should have the job: if he was elected fairly, we have no right to say anything. If those who elected him want him to retire, that’s fine, I guess. But like Sidney above me, I think it’s quite likely this guy has a learning disability, maybe even like dyslexia. And I would hate to unfairly discriminate against someone with a legitimate disability. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2010, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likeable-collegial-president-of-detroit-school-board-can-barely-read-or-write-issue-or-not/531567/28 "2010-03-07T15:31:50Z")
The guy is in a do-nothing position. Plus, Michigan has pretty much written off the City of Detroit. But,this is common in the USA-the Mayor of Boston (Thomas Menino) is mentally retarded. ---
**Author:** ![sugar\_and\_spice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@sugar\_and\_spice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugar_and_spice)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2010, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likeable-collegial-president-of-detroit-school-board-can-barely-read-or-write-issue-or-not/531567/29 "2010-03-07T15:57:01Z")
The guy obviously has a learning disability that affects his ability to read and write, but not his ability to speak and listen. I found the article to be somewhat disingenuous that it didn’t address that directly. This one does: > **[FOX 2 Detroit | Local News, Weather, and Live Streams | WJBK](https://www.fox2detroit.com)** > > Detroit news, weather, sports, and traffic serving all of southeast Michigan and Metro Detroit. Watch breaking news live or see the latest videos from programs like The Nine, Let it Rip, and FOX 2 News. > [@](#): > > DETROIT - Reading and writing are fundamental tools in education, but the president of the Detroit School Board says a learning disability has been a life long challenge for him. > > “You survive. You made it. Now, you’re telling me people with disability can not be leaders,” said Otis Mathis. > > \ > > Mathis, a U.S. Navy veteran, is a math wizard. In high school, he took four years of algebra, two years of geometry, trigonometry and calculus. He aced the college math exams, but he never had success writing sentences. > > A Wayne State professor told him he had a disability with which he would have to deal. > > “She told me that… the way you talk, you don’t even write the way you talk. So, there’s a disconnect in your brain… When that signal goes to your fingers to write, something happens,” said Mathis. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2010, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likeable-collegial-president-of-detroit-school-board-can-barely-read-or-write-issue-or-not/531567/30 "2010-03-07T17:14:21Z")
Detroit has, as I understand it, long suffered from a lack of honest, well-intentioned government officials. That’s exactly what this fellow appears to be. Unless he is so profoundly disabled that he cannot make rational decisions relating to his position, or cannot implement them (even if just by instructing others to write memos on his behalf), it would seem a shame to lose this guy. I also think that, in a sense, he _is_ a positive role model - he’s showing kids who’ve already suffered lifelong deficits thanks to poor Detroit public educations that they can overcome those deficits through hard work. ---
**Author:** ![Pyper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Pyper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pyper)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2010, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likeable-collegial-president-of-detroit-school-board-can-barely-read-or-write-issue-or-not/531567/31 "2010-03-07T17:29:06Z")
I disagree that the way people write is the same way they talk. Some people have learning disabilities that make them very poor written communicators. My mother has dyslexia. She didn’t learn the alphabet until she was in second grade. Reading her emails full of misspellings and run-on sentences, you would think she was a moron, but she has had a very successful career in microbiology. On the other hand, I do think this man should try to remediate his disability. When he was a child and a young man, the school system failed at helping him, but now that he is a successful adult, he can hire himself a private tutor to help improve his skills. It would set a good example: it’s never too late to learn. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likeable-collegial-president-of-detroit-school-board-can-barely-read-or-write-issue-or-not/531567/32 "2010-03-07T17:42:43Z")
It’s an elected position. “Allowed” is not really even an issue, is it? ---
**Author:** ![DJ\_Motorbike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90ced4/32.png) [@DJ\_Motorbike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DJ_Motorbike)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likeable-collegial-president-of-detroit-school-board-can-barely-read-or-write-issue-or-not/531567/33 "2010-03-08T17:35:37Z")
Schmoozers often get away with too much for too long. In my experience the charismatic hob-nobbers are rarely the most qualified or hard working, yet always seem to win approval and get rewarded. He got his comeuppance. I wish this kind of thing would happen more often. I don’t feel bad for the guy at all. Schadenfreude, I believe, is the word. I acknowledge that I may have some resentment issues. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likeable-collegial-president-of-detroit-school-board-can-barely-read-or-write-issue-or-not/531567/34 "2010-03-08T17:47:12Z")
I tend to write similarly to the way I speak; with many of my Sciences-track teachers, that’s worked just fine and dandy. But right now, I’m in an MSc program in translation, where writing like I speak would get me failed on grounds of things like “using contractions,” “being impressionistic” (just be grateful I’m not being dadaistic, cos I sure know how to!) and just generally not following The Expected Form. Writing like you speak is neither what most people do, nor what is always expected. I’ve known people with real bad dyslexia who were good at communicating orally; I’ve known people who treat the virgin page like they’re back in 5th Grade trying to impress upon their teacher how interestingly does the cow give us milk (many of them end up using malapropisms or super-complex structures and vocabulary in writing that they would never use orally); I’ve known people who just froze when faced with a blank page, but who were perfectly able to suit up and walk into a burning building - writing the report after the fact, though, oy! Is this guy able to do the rest of his job? Get him a good secretary. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likeable-collegial-president-of-detroit-school-board-can-barely-read-or-write-issue-or-not/531567/35 "2010-03-08T18:26:37Z")
I’m tempted to say, “It’s Detroit. Who gives a fuck?” Um… I haven’t come up with anything better, so I’ll leave it pretty much at that. ---
**Author:** ![Gustav](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/919ad9/32.png) [@Gustav](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gustav)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likeable-collegial-president-of-detroit-school-board-can-barely-read-or-write-issue-or-not/531567/36 "2010-03-08T18:54:18Z")
If he does a good job it shouldn’t be an issue, but is that really the case? The vibe I’m getting from the article is that he’s unqualified for his job, but otherwise likeable, honest and moral. That’s all well and good, but they’re not good reasons to hire someone who will be responsible for “the academic future of 90,000 children”. It makes for a lousy feel-good story, but that’s just how it is. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likeable-collegial-president-of-detroit-school-board-can-barely-read-or-write-issue-or-not/531567/37 "2010-03-09T04:10:09Z")
> [@DJ\_Motorbike](#): > > Schmoozers often get away with too much for too long. In my experience the charismatic hob-nobbers are rarely the most qualified or hard working, yet always seem to win approval and get rewarded. He got his comeuppance. I wish this kind of thing would happen more often. > > I don’t feel bad for the guy at all. Schadenfreude, I believe, is the word. > > I acknowledge that I may have some resentment issues. ☹ Getting successfully elected by the public to an office of resposibility is a comeuppance? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likeable-collegial-president-of-detroit-school-board-can-barely-read-or-write-issue-or-not/531567/38 "2010-03-09T04:10:41Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I’m tempted to say, “It’s Detroit. Who gives a fuck?” > > Um… I haven’t come up with anything better, so I’ll leave it pretty much at that. What an arrogant, shitty thing to say. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likeable-collegial-president-of-detroit-school-board-can-barely-read-or-write-issue-or-not/531567/39 "2010-03-09T04:16:11Z")
Didn’t you hear? Some of the Americans amongst us aren’t real Americans. And some of the people amongst us aren’t real humans either. It’s a thing now. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likeable-collegial-president-of-detroit-school-board-can-barely-read-or-write-issue-or-not/531567/40 "2010-03-09T05:27:21Z")
Geez. In any other school district I might side with those saying that if the guy is otherwise good at his job then he should be left alone to do it. But coming a day after reading that Detroit’s students have just scored [the lowest performance in the history of the National Assessment of Educational Progress](http://www.freep.com/article/20091208/NEWS01/91208020/Detroit-students%5C--scores-a-record-low-on-national-test), I’m going to say no: Detroit is in crisis-mode, and is going to need the very best people possible to dig themselves out of this hole, and that should include people who can sit up late at night writing memos and appeals in comprehensible English. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likeable-collegial-president-of-detroit-school-board-can-barely-read-or-write-issue-or-not/531567.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likeable-collegial-president-of-detroit-school-board-can-barely-read-or-write-issue-or-not/531567.md?page=3)