# (Likely) Non-voting American dumbshits **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 5, 2018, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987 "2018-11-05T02:06:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Walmarticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Walmarticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walmarticus)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987/41 "2018-11-06T15:51:25Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Voting deserves to die? First time I’ve heard this sentiment. Care to elaborate? > (I’m with you on Miracle Whip and timeshares) I shouldn’t say voting deserves to die. Miracle whip is a bad analogy I didn’t think through. I would say that the way people pick their leaders in the US in 2018 is totally broken and does deserve to die, probably replaced by some other way of voting. Usually people lightly acknowledge there’s problems with the system then just hammer on about how great voting is anyway and how they vote more before 6 am than most men do all day. But there’s a lot of people in this thread talking about this flawed electoral system instead of who can vote the hardest which makes me less hostile than I was. Another bad analogy would be like telling a Russian “if you don’t vote you can’t complain”. Voting is just one dimension of political expression. The more screwed up the electoral system gets the more important the other avenues are. Basically if you punch a Nazi you should be off the hook for the next ten elections. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987/42 "2018-11-06T16:05:09Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > I know how it’s _intended_ to work; it’s just that ours is broken to the core & doesn’t in any way work like it’s intended to. I heard that one of the two big FL races alone was over 100 million. I can't participate in any meaningful way (read ) that any of the candidates would be concerned about my concern if that wasn’t already their position. What if I like some of their positions but not other ones? There’s no question that the system has lots of corruption, but that’s also a product of years of corrosion - years of cumulative voter ignorance, apathy, and non-participation. The solution isn’t less participation; it’s more of it, even when it’s difficult - especially when it’s difficult. The less democratic participation there is, the less democratic a society inevitably becomes. And it becomes more expensive, more challenging to repair the damage the further down this road we go. Authoritarians don’t just let you go back to the way it was once you realize you’re not happy with them. The costs of sticking your neck out to challenge them at that point isn’t just volunteering your time to vote or organize; it could mean ending up in jail - or worse. > [@Spiderman](#): > > That’s one of the main reasons that I vote, so I can bitch. People who don’t vote can bitch too. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987/43 "2018-11-06T16:34:48Z")
A big part of voter apathy, imo, is the fucked up electoral systems we have both in states and nationally. It’s way past time to look seriously at better systems that make people feel good about their representation. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987/44 "2018-11-06T16:40:49Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Democracy itself isn’t inherently flawed, but our current constitution and political system may no longer be compatible with the times in which we live. The Framers of the Constitution couldn’t have envisioned the power of electronic tribes. Our electronic tribalism stands in diametric opposition to a diverse, democratic society, open, inclusive society. The organizers of such tribes seem to do so with the idea of creating identities and excluding those who don’t buy into that identity. These social forces are tearing people apart, and I don’t know if anyone really knows how to stop the forward momentum of such a force - other than regulating the platforms (Facebook, Twitter, etc). But people will inevitably regulate them as they see fit, and with their own designs. I could see these individuals agreeing with your statements. In fact, I think it is difficult to argue that nonvoters are dumb if you believe the political system is not compatible with how they live. Tribes are ok. Tribes can coexist under a loose confederation and network of alliances. See Switzerland. See pre-unification Italy and Germany, especially. You will see a human flourishing that is very cosmopolitan and progressive for its time. Tribalism is a problem when the tribes are jockeying for control of a centralized government. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2018, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987/45 "2018-11-07T00:18:44Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > No, he’s saying that the number of votes isn’t just important for deciding who wins but also for deciding the size of the win, which also has a potentially significant effect. He didn’t say that at all. And given this isn’t the UK and we don’t have coalitions, the two parties will never struggle for funds based on a single vote. Remember, we’re talking about a single vote here, and not aggregate numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Textual\_Innuendo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/898d66/32.png) [@Textual\_Innuendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Textual_Innuendo)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2018, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987/46 "2018-11-07T00:55:22Z")
I’m with the minority here so far - voting sucks. I think voting matters _this_ election, because we’re basically in a Pascal’s wager situation right now where there’s a tiny but not-insignificant chance of world-changingly awful things happening if things keep going on as they are, and we should do whatever low-cost things we can to mitigate against that, however insignificant…but broadly, voting in the US sucks and is pointless. It’s like **Walmarticus** said, if you lived in Russia, are you going to be excited about voting? Well, guess what - we have about as much real choice as the Russians do in terms of being able to elect somebody who isn’t 100% a creature of the current corrupt system. Either owned by it or owners of parts of it, those are the only two flavors you can choose from, either in Russia or here. It’s like telling a cancer patient that although they can’t afford treatment, they can vote on whether they get meatloaf or chicken pot pie for dinner. The changes we actually NEED aren’t up for vote. And there’s no real path to meaningful change, given it would require one or more constitutional amendments and we can’t even cross the aisle enough to approve short-term continuing budget resolutions that are in the best interests of everyone. Instead, we can choose Kang ® or Kodos (D), and be real proud that we _voted_ and we’re _making a difference!_ ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2018, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987/47 "2018-11-07T02:09:45Z")
Re post #46: What a steaming load of unadulterated horse shit. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2018, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987/48 "2018-11-07T02:24:32Z")
> [@Textual\_Innuendo](#): > > I’m with the minority here so far - voting sucks. I think voting matters _this_ election, because we’re basically in a Pascal’s wager situation right now where there’s a tiny but not-insignificant chance of world-changingly awful things happening if things keep going on as they are, and we should do whatever low-cost things we can to mitigate against that, however insignificant…but broadly, voting in the US sucks and is pointless. > > It’s like **Walmarticus** said, if you lived in Russia, are you going to be excited about voting? Well, guess what - we have about as much real choice as the Russians do in terms of being able to elect somebody who isn’t 100% a creature of the current corrupt system. Either owned by it or owners of parts of it, those are the only two flavors you can choose from, either in Russia or here. > > It’s like telling a cancer patient that although they can’t afford treatment, they can vote on whether they get meatloaf or chicken pot pie for dinner. The changes we actually NEED aren’t up for vote. > > And there’s no real path to meaningful change, given it would require one or more constitutional amendments and we can’t even cross the aisle enough to approve short-term continuing budget resolutions that are in the best interests of everyone. > > Instead, we can choose Kang (R) or Kodos (D), and be real proud that we _voted_ and we’re _making a difference!_ And it’s attitudes like yours over the past 30-40 years that have gotten us where we are. Congrats, meathead. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2018, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987/49 "2018-11-07T03:44:29Z")
I’d just like to say that **Walmarticus** is a fucking cool username. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2018, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987/50 "2018-11-07T04:03:06Z")
> [@Textual\_Innuendo](#): > > The changes we actually NEED aren’t up for vote. Wrong. A first step is to show politicians that we won’t put up with moronic racists that only care about themselves. We need to support any, and everything to get rid of them. We need to start with their moron in chief, Donald Trump. One way to do that would be to turn the Senate. Guess how that happens. It starts at the base. It starts with every asshole that supports republicans that support trump. From county commissioner on up. THAT’S how things change. Since republicans only care for their own interest, we have to show them that if they are against others interests, **they are gonna lose their job.**. It looks like Democrats now have the house (no help from you Textual Innuendo [I assume you did not vote]). This will give Mueller some help in protecting his investigation against the criminal trump, and his buddies. > [@Textual\_Innuendo](#): > > And there’s no real path to meaningful change, given it would require one or more constitutional amendments and we can’t even cross the aisle enough to approve short-term continuing budget resolutions that are in the best interests of everyone. Oh, and this is horse shit too. No amendments needed. Just don’t vote for fucking criminals would be a good start. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2018, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987/51 "2018-11-07T06:32:53Z")
> [@Textual\_Innuendo](#): > > I’m with the minority here so far - voting sucks. I think voting matters _this_ election, because we’re basically in a Pascal’s wager situation right now where there’s a tiny but not-insignificant chance of world-changingly awful things happening if things keep going on as they are, and we should do whatever low-cost things we can to mitigate against that, however insignificant…but broadly, voting in the US sucks and is pointless. > > It’s like **Walmarticus** said, if you lived in Russia, are you going to be excited about voting? Well, guess what - we have about as much real choice as the Russians do in terms of being able to elect somebody who isn’t 100% a creature of the current corrupt system. Either owned by it or owners of parts of it, those are the only two flavors you can choose from, either in Russia or here. > > It’s like telling a cancer patient that although they can’t afford treatment, they can vote on whether they get meatloaf or chicken pot pie for dinner. The changes we actually NEED aren’t up for vote. > > And there’s no real path to meaningful change, given it would require one or more constitutional amendments and we can’t even cross the aisle enough to approve short-term continuing budget resolutions that are in the best interests of everyone. > > Instead, we can choose Kang (R) or Kodos (D), and be real proud that we _voted_ and we’re _making a difference!_ You’re just a lazy, stupid person trying to sound smart. ---
**Author:** ![Textual\_Innuendo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/898d66/32.png) [@Textual\_Innuendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Textual_Innuendo)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2018, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987/52 "2018-11-07T12:04:16Z")
Alright everybody - enjoy the “huge change” you just voted in. I’m sure America is going to be all kittens and rainbows now that the right flavor of corrupt multi-millionaire is in office, and our days of being a bottom-ranking nation on healthcare, education, prisons, and social mores amongst the developed world will soon be at an end. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2018, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987/53 "2018-11-07T12:12:17Z")
> [@Textual\_Innuendo](#): > > Alright everybody - enjoy the “huge change” you just voted in. > > I’m sure America is going to be all kittens and rainbows now that the right flavor of corrupt multi-millionaire is in office, and our days of being a bottom-ranking nation on healthcare, education, prisons, and social mores amongst the developed world will soon be at an end. 😛 Boy, you sure showed all those people who were claiming those things. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2018, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987/54 "2018-11-07T12:22:02Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > You’re just a lazy, stupid person trying to sound smart. He just wants to rationalize his failure to practice his civic duty, the kind of shit tax cheats say. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2018, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987/55 "2018-11-07T12:23:11Z")
> [@Textual\_Innuendo](#): > > Alright everybody - enjoy the “huge change” you just voted in. > > I’m sure America is going to be all kittens and rainbows now that the right flavor of corrupt multi-millionaire is in office, and our days of being a bottom-ranking nation on healthcare, education, prisons, and social mores amongst the developed world will soon be at an end. 😛 And how does not voting help, as opposed to voting? ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2018, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987/56 "2018-11-07T12:44:34Z")
Getting back to the OP — Americans DID vote in greater numbers than usual for a midterm. That’s good news, even if I’m not thrilled about all the results. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2018, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987/57 "2018-11-07T13:09:40Z")
> [@Textual\_Innuendo](#): > > Alright everybody - enjoy the “huge change” you just voted in. > > I’m sure America is going to be all kittens and rainbows now that the right flavor of corrupt multi-millionaire is in office, and our days of being a bottom-ranking nation on healthcare, education, prisons, and social mores amongst the developed world will soon be at an end. 😛 I’m already enjoying it because the new House of Representatives hasn’t even been seated yet and Trump is already panicking. And you are still a deluded idjit. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2018, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987/58 "2018-11-07T13:37:18Z")
* * * ---
**Author:** ![Brawndo\_with\_Electrolytes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Brawndo\_with\_Electrolytes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brawndo_with_Electrolytes)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2018, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987/59 "2018-11-07T16:09:38Z")
[https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/files/gilens\_and\_page\_2014\_-testing\_theories\_of\_american\_politics.doc.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjF39Di1MLeAhXJxlQKHZfdDbUQFjAAegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw0s84kMmTdwS-dAHLULL6YF](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/files/gilens_and_page_2014_-testing_theories_of_american_politics.doc.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjF39Di1MLeAhXJxlQKHZfdDbUQFjAAegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw0s84kMmTdwS-dAHLULL6YF) These two researchers found no significant correlation between policy and public wishes as expressed via voting, but a strong correlation between policy and the wishes of a small rich elite. ---
**Author:** ![Brawndo\_with\_Electrolytes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Brawndo\_with\_Electrolytes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brawndo_with_Electrolytes)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2018, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987/60 "2018-11-07T16:28:57Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > You’re just a lazy, stupid person trying to sound smart. Hey if you can’t attack the argument, attack the person amirite? Also, ironically, this reply is lazy, stupid, and trying to sound smart. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987.md?page=4)