# (Likely) Non-voting American dumbshits **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 5, 2018, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987 "2018-11-05T02:06:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Chopsticks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cab0a1/32.png) [@Chopsticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chopsticks)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2018, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987/121 "2018-11-16T13:44:09Z")
I’ll vote for the ‘first past the post has major problems, but ya do what ya can’ system. Not voting for your definition of sane government leads to things like Trump (vs Bush 3 or whoever else was in that primary), Brexit, and no Congressional seats ever changing hands (I think Zelazny had the short stories of immortal Senators taking over so your vote really didn’t count anymore). Day after the Brexit vote, NPR interviewed someone who basically said “I voted for Brexit as a protest vote. I didn’t think it would actually win!” Odd thing I noticed on our ballot. There was instructions next to the write-in line that “you can only write-in people who registered as a write-in candidate”. WTF? I want President Lil Bub. And BTW, did Heinlein express any opinion about all the civilians working for the military? I forget if the admin types in Troopers were regular civilians or post-military-service. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2018, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987/122 "2018-11-16T13:58:28Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > **Nava** : Are write-in votes permitted in your country’s elections? Officially no; they count as “void”, but the write-ins are listed. We’ve had votes for the king and his relatives (1), we’ve had votes for deceased people (2), we’ve had votes for cartoon characters (3). Senate votes are the only kind where we get the whole list of candidates, everything else is “closed list” (you pick a list presented by a party, for each legislative body involved). If a Senate ballot has the maximum number of marks or less, and if some of them are actual candidates, these are counted as actual votes even if the voter did then add AND MY MOM! in big bold letters (4). 1: there’s been votes for Juan Carlos I, for his father, for Doña Sofía, for Felipe VI… I haven’t heard of any for Princess Leonor but I expect them to start happening any time now 2: sir or madam, the whole reason you can vote is that _el Generalísimo_ is dead, so even if we did count this vote he wouldn’t be going to Parliament any time soon! 3: favorites known to international audiences include Tweety Bird, Speedy Gonzales, Fred Flintstone and Scooby Doo. 4: hey, some people really like their moms. And many are convinced that their mom would do a better job of running the country, even with dementia. At least she’d steal less than some of the actual politicians. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2018, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987/123 "2018-11-16T16:21:58Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > You, um…you might want to see a doctor about that. Yay fascism! ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2018, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987/124 "2018-11-16T16:25:49Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > …_el Generalísimo_ is dead… Still??? Why wasn’t this in the news? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2018, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987/125 "2018-11-16T16:45:28Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > I don’t know what the hell is the matter with you people. I’m familiar, at least a little bit, with the biographies of most of the people in this thread, and to my knowledge, not a one of you has ever served in the military. How can you claim to be allowed to “bitch” when you haven’t even fulfilled your civic duty of serving in the armed forces? > > I, and only I, have the right to bitch about my country because I have a service medal and you do not.\* So STFU with your “I voted, I can bitch” bullshit. Everyone knows you only earn that patriotic right by actually, y’know, serving the country itself in a time of war. > > Again I say, what the hell is wrong with you people? If you want to make the point that you don’t want to hear our complaints if we have not signed up to join the armed forces, then that is your right to do so. You feel that you have done more for our country, and therefore, have more rights, that’s an argument that you are allowed to make. But, in your service to the country, you had no more effect on who was your elected representative than I did. You had just the same ability to affect your country as we did. When you served, no one asked for your opinion as to what wars or other actions we would be involved in. The point is is that you have a voice when you vote. It is your voice, it is your chance to make your opinion heard, and yes, IMHO, if you do not take that chance to make your opinion heard, then whining about it at another time is just plain childish. I don’t want to hear it. What skin in the game you have is utterly irrelevant. You have a chance to speak, and if you refuse to take that chance to speak, then you have specifically said that you don’t want your opinion heard. If you have stated that you don’t want your opinion heard, then what the hell are you doing giving it to me now? When they say, “Speak now or forever hold your peace.” that is your opportunity to speak. If you hold your silence then, but then the next day, want to make your complaints about the union, then no one will care to listen to you either. So, if I had to sum up my position and feelings on the matter, it would be, “Vote now, or hold your peace.” > [@](#): > > Isn’t it funny how people who are sooooo jazzed up to vote are the same people who care about polls of n=950? Somehow we can ask a handful of people what the whole state thinks, for months or years before an election, but then on election day, _everyone’s_ got to show up or it doesn’t count. That’s because that is how statistics work. You can extrapolate from a small sample what a larger population will do. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2018, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987/126 "2018-11-16T16:58:07Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Yay fascism! Or possibly gonorrhoea. It’s easy to confuse the two. > [@andros](#): > > Still??? Why wasn’t this in the news? Because they don’t let Chevy Chase read the news bulletins anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2018, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987/127 "2018-11-16T17:56:26Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Still??? Why wasn’t this in the news? The first such votes took place within months of the death. The joke may come at least in part from them. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987/128 "2018-11-17T08:39:34Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I don’t know about the calls for a national holiday. When I worked entry level jobs, I worked almost every single holiday. This is a problem with the US employment system, not voting holidays. Here, someone \*forcing \*employees to work on voting day would face the full wrath of law. Of course, most adults in our country still remember a time when they _couldn’t_ vote, so that probably helps. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987/129 "2018-11-17T17:24:14Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > This is a problem with the US employment system, not voting holidays. Here, someone \*forcing \*employees to work on voting day would face the full wrath of law. > > Of course, most adults in our country still remember a time when they _couldn’t_ vote, so that probably helps. So, _everything_ is shut down on election day? No restaurants, no shops? Do hotels have to turn out their guests for the day? I assume that emergency services and hospitals are open, along with their staff of not just doctors and nurses, but also orderlies and support staff. How are you running mass transit to get people to the polls without bus drivers? Is it that way for all official holidays, or just for elections? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2018, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987/130 "2018-11-18T12:42:04Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > So, _everything_ is shut down on election day? Of course not. Quite a lot of people in the service industry can’t vote anyway. Plus it doesn’t take all day to vote. So I imagine people make a plan. But if a boss wouldn’t let off someone who \*wanted \*off on that day to vote, they’d regret it. Essential services (fire, medical) are an exception, though. But they can vote early if they’re on shift that day. I was talking about ordinary citizens. > [@](#): > > How are you running mass transit to get people to the polls without bus drivers? You must not be familiar with the South African public transport system (or lack thereof) > [@](#): > > Is it that way for all official holidays, or just for elections? What do you mean by “that way”? That you can’t be \*forced \*to work on a public holiday? Pretty much for most people, yeah. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2018, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987/131 "2018-11-18T17:18:18Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Of course not. Quite a lot of people in the service industry can’t vote anyway. I did not know that. Why not? > [@](#): > > Plus it doesn’t take all day to vote. So I imagine people make a plan. But if a boss wouldn’t let off someone who \*wanted \*off on that day to vote, they’d regret it. Right, and here, it is governed by state law, not federal, but most, if not all states do require employers to give some amount of time off for voting, if requested. It varies from undefined, to a couple hours, to as long as it takes. If a boss refused to allow their employees to take advantage of the rights that their respective state grants them, then they would be breaking the law and could face prosecution for such. > [@](#): > > Essential services (fire, medical) are an exception, though. But they can vote early if they’re on shift that day. I was talking about ordinary citizens. Ordinary citizens here can vote early too. Unfortunately, early voting here sucks, as you have to go to your county election board, as opposed to your local precinct, and there has been, in my experience, a very long line. > [@](#): > > You must not be familiar with the South African public transport system (or lack thereof) No, I am not, but the post of madmonk’s I was replying to specifically called for free mass transit on election day. I am wondering how to have free mass transit on election day, _and_ give the bus drivers the day off to vote. > [@](#): > > What do you mean by “that way”? That you can’t be \*forced \*to work on a public holiday? Pretty much for most people, yeah. Well, in the US, no one can _force_ you to work on any day of the week, month, or year, we had a war about that a bit back. However, you may very well have your job in jeopardy if you do not work your scheduled shifts, and there is no law that says that employees may not be scheduled on holidays. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2018, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987/132 "2018-11-19T05:21:09Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I did not know that. Why not? Non-citizen immigrants. > [@](#): > > I am wondering how to have free mass transit on election day, _and_ give the bus drivers the day off to vote. Only have the non-citizens on shift. > [@](#): > > Well, in the US, no one can _force_ you to work […] > However, you may very well have your job in jeopardy if you do not work your scheduled shifts That’s a distinction without difference, then… > [@](#): > > , and there is no law that says that employees may not be scheduled on holidays. For ordinary workers, this is only possible by agreement (and comes with double pay even then) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2018, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987/133 "2018-11-19T22:53:51Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Non-citizen immigrants Only allowing citizens to vote is hardly exclusive to the U.S. For that matter, there are also a lot of teenagers in the service industry as well (although mostly after school and weekends). Perhaps that would be a good idea – have them take those shifts on election day. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2018, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987/134 "2018-11-19T23:21:49Z")
All elections (Federal, State and Local) are held on a Saturday in Australia. We also have pre-polling and mail-voting for those either live too far from a polling booth, or who would otherwise be unable to attend a booth on that Saturday. I am looking forward to this Saturday as we have a State Election here in Victoria…chance to have a sausage in bread and to buy some yummy cakes from the parents raising funds for their school! Oh, and of course to exercise my goddamned democratic right AND responsibility to vote. But sausages and cakes are good too. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987/135 "2018-11-20T08:12:27Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > chance to have a sausage in bread and to buy some yummy cakes from the parents raising funds for their school! Ohhh! Lamingtons. Although the sliced bread thing is just _weird_, you guys know that, right? Buns designed for sausage have been a thing [since the 17th C](http://medievalcookery.blogspot.com/2010/01/medieval-hot-dog-stand.html)… ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987/136 "2018-11-21T05:03:15Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > All elections (Federal, State and Local) are held on a Saturday in Australia. We also have pre-polling and mail-voting for those either live too far from a polling booth, or who would otherwise be unable to attend a booth on that Saturday. > > I am looking forward to this Saturday as we have a State Election here in Victoria…chance to have a sausage in bread and to buy some yummy cakes from the parents raising funds for their school! > > Oh, and of course to exercise my goddamned democratic right AND responsibility to vote. But sausages and cakes are good too. 😃 Isn’t it your legal obligation in Australia to vote, or does Australia no longer have mandatory voting? (Apologies if this has already been asked and answered.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/likely-non-voting-american-dumbshits/823987.md?page=6)