# Limbaugh's Bid to Buy the St. Louis Rams **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 9, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223 "2009-10-09T18:48:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223/201 "2009-10-16T17:18:39Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > My sentence would have been better if non-black was substituted for white. Then you would be disproving your own point: if it’s racist when any non-black person says it, why isn’t it racist? > [@](#): > > What Cosby said was not racist regardless of whose mouth it came from. I was disagreeing with your statement that a white person who said it would be hounded out of society. If a white talk radio host said it, millions of people would think ‘Megadittoes for telling it like it is, sir.’ Rush was being sarcastic when he said the white kid deserved to be beaten up for being a racist, for example. His implication that white people get singled out unfairly for racism, and conservatives are being called racists to deflect criticism of Obama, was not sarcastic - THAT WAS HIS POINT. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223/202 "2009-10-16T17:33:01Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Then you would be disproving your own point: if it’s racist when any non-black person says it, why isn’t it racist? No, that is my point. Do you consider something racist because it comes out of a white person’s mouth but not racist if the same point is made from someone who is the same race as the target? > [@Marley23](#): > > I was disagreeing with your statement that a white person who said it would be hounded out of society. If a white talk radio host said it, millions of people would think ‘Megadittoes for telling it like it is, sir.’ > > Rush was being sarcastic when he said the white kid deserved to be beaten up for being a racist, for example. His implication that white people get singled out unfairly for racism, and conservatives are being called racists to deflect criticism of Obama, was not sarcastic - THAT WAS HIS POINT. I apologize…I was unclear on your point. Perhaps you are right that Rush could get away with making the comments Cosby made. I don’t think he could make them as forcefully without being considered a raving racist by the public at large and many in his own audience but I don’t think he would lose his job. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223/203 "2009-10-16T17:40:48Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > Do you consider something racist because it comes out of a white person’s mouth but not racist if the same point is made from someone who is the same race as the target? People get uncomfortable whenever this gets brought up, but the truth is, context matters in speech. It is difficult to prove any comment is objectively racist, so you consider the speaker and the situation in which the statements were made. Almost any prejudiced statement would sound different if it were spoken by a member of the group being insulted. That does not remove the stupidity and prejudice of the statement, it just alters them. So when a white guy makes comments comparing black people to gang members, it’s going to be seen as racist, whereas people will generally assume a black guy is not going to denigrate himself that way. But ultimately a white guy made this particular remark. Imagining what people would think if it had been made by someone else is not productive. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223/204 "2009-10-16T17:48:50Z")
I dislike Rush and make no bones about that. However, if he wants to buy a sports team, let him buy the moribund major league baseball team he used to work for, the Kansas City Royals. They need all the help they can get. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223/205 "2009-10-16T17:52:40Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It is difficult to prove any comment is objectively racist, so you consider the speaker and the situation in which the statements were made. Indeed. So consider Limbaugh who was saying this. When Limbaugh says… _“Obama’s America, white kids getting beat up on school buses now. You put your kids on a school bus, you expect safety but in Obama’s America the white kids now get beat up with the black kids cheering, “Yay, right on, right on, right on, right on,” and, of course, everybody says the white kid deserved it, he was born a racist, he’s white.”_ …do we assume that Limbaugh is being favorable to Obama? Has Limbaugh _ever_ been favorable to Obama? I cannot see his sarcasm here as mocking the notion that this was about racism because that “would not” happen in Obama’s America. Limbaugh is stoking the fires of racism. Race baiting pure and simple. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223/206 "2009-10-16T18:26:15Z")
[http://www.usnews.com/blogs/robert-schlesinger/2009/10/13/rush-limbaugh-would-fit-right-in-with-nfl-owners.html](http://www.usnews.com/blogs/robert-schlesinger/2009/10/13/rush-limbaugh-would-fit-right-in-with-nfl-owners.html) For the owners it is all about money and power. They don’t need Rush’s distractions. as soon as he opened his mouth, he was a liability. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223/207 "2009-10-17T00:24:21Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > People get uncomfortable whenever this gets brought up, but the truth is, context matters in speech. It is difficult to prove any comment is objectively racist, so you consider the speaker and the situation in which the statements were made. Almost any prejudiced statement would sound different if it were spoken by a member of the group being insulted. That does not remove the stupidity and prejudice of the statement, it just alters them. > So when a white guy makes comments comparing black people to gang members, it’s going to be seen as racist, whereas people will generally assume a black guy is not going to denigrate himself that way. But ultimately a white guy made this particular remark. Imagining what people would think if it had been made by someone else is not productive. But it is productive. A statement is either racist or it is not…regardless of who says it. I have heard black people compare other blacks to gang members on a regular basis. They are referring to the thug look, bad behavior, etc. This does not make them racist. Additionally, Rush did not compare **black people** to gang members. He compared a number of players, who happen to be black, to gang members. This is the important point…he is not denigrating an entire race but, rather, some of the players who act poorly. The fact is that, for you, the context was Rush Limbaugh saying it, and it was an insult hurled at a black guy by a white guy. That’s the bottom line. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223/208 "2009-10-17T00:55:53Z")
No. There’s a justifiable double standard. For example, it’s ok if black people say the N-word, it’s not ok if you say it. It IS ok for black people to say things that it’s not ok for whitey to say. All things are not equal. And Rush was _totally_ comparing black NFL players to gang members. Let’s not play games here. ---
**Author:** ![pompeybear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8c91f0/32.png) [@pompeybear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pompeybear)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223/209 "2009-10-17T03:00:24Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Walter Cronkite, Ted Koppel, Dan Rather (just for starters) have 120+ years of broadcast experience between them. Care to find even one quote from any of them that was deemed racist? Those three men did very little commentary so I don’t get the connection. You might as well ask if I can find any questionable Casey Kasem quotes. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223/210 "2009-10-17T03:01:38Z")
All this meager defense of Limbaugh reminds me of George Wallace and his ilk. “We’re not racist, we are just protecting state’s rights. It’s our right to make racist laws, deny voting rights, fail to prosecute lynchings and enforce segregation because the Constitution doesn’t prohibit it. It has nothing to do with racism. We’re not racists, we are state’s rights protectionists.” Yea, sure, OK, you’ve really thought this through and are operating on totally philosophical grounds and the highest level of legal scrutiny. Nothing in your actions has anything, not anything, to do with racism. If you say so, I guess we must believe you because you would never mask an agenda. Now sell me a bridge. A really big bridge. ---
**Author:** ![pompeybear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8c91f0/32.png) [@pompeybear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pompeybear)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223/211 "2009-10-17T03:14:10Z")
> [@Spartydog](#): > > All this meager defense of Limbaugh reminds me of George Wallace and his ilk. “We’re not racist, we are just protecting state’s rights. It’s our right to make racist laws, deny voting rights, fail to prosecute lynchings and enforce segregation because the Constitution doesn’t prohibit it. It has nothing to do with racism. We’re not racists, we are state’s rights protectionists.” > > Yea, sure, OK, you’ve really thought this through and are operating on totally philosophical grounds and the highest level of legal scrutiny. Nothing in your actions has anything, not anything, to do with racism. If you say so, I guess we must believe you because you would never mask an agenda. > > Now sell me a bridge. A really big bridge. You’ve done it. You’ve exposed me. The few of us on this board who demand a little higher proof than simply “_well..you know what he really means_” before damning another human being are simply modern day George Wallaces. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223/212 "2009-10-17T03:27:38Z")
Let’s be fair, people. Rush Limbaugh has never, ever refused to marry an inter-racial couple. I hear he even lets black people use his bathroom. Case closed. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223/213 "2009-10-17T03:41:17Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > But it is productive. A statement is either racist or it is not…regardless of who says it. The only issue is the statement itself, not what it might’ve sounded like if somebody else said it. The rest is a waste of time, and in fact it’s usually a deliberate dodge. > [@](#): > > Additionally, Rush did not compare **black people** to gang members. He compared a number of players, who happen to be black, to gang members. Thank you and goodnight! > [@](#): > > he is not denigrating an entire race but, rather, some of the players who act poorly. And the reason he did this by comparing them to gang members was \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223/214 "2009-10-17T04:12:01Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > And the reason he did this by comparing them to gang members was \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_. Was most likely to illustrate that gang style behavior was taking root in the NFL and nobody was saying or doing anything to put a stop to it (with the implication being that to do so would be considered racist). Limbaugh is not prejudiced against blacks but he is disdainful of certain negative or distructive elements of modern-day black culture and the reluctance of anyone to condemn them for PC reasons. In other words, he feels much the same way as Bill Cosby. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223/215 "2009-10-17T04:15:28Z")
> [@cpastu](#): > > You’ve done it. You’ve exposed me. The few of us on this board who demand a little higher proof than simply “_well..you know what he really means_” before damning another human being are simply modern day George Wallaces. :smack: The evidence is all over this thread. You just have your fingers stuck in your ears. > [@](#): > > Rush Limbaugh, however, is not “most people,” and his contribution to this week’s discussion in the media of race and the Obama presidency was to engage in some markedly despicable race-baiting. There’s really no other way to categorize what he said and the topics he covered over this five-day span. > > SOURCE: [http://mediamatters.org/columns/200909180052](http://mediamatters.org/columns/200909180052) [Maddow cites Beck, Limbaugh, Malkin as purveyors of “blunt, unvarnished race-baiting”](http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200907290064) (watch the video in the link and listen to Limbaugh’s comments…it’s not very long) > [@](#): > > I share a powerful distaste for characters like Al Sharpton, who deliberately play on the racial anxieties of Americans. As one of the most powerful slurs in American life, “racist” is an accusation that ought to be made rarely, after careful deliberation, with incontrovertible evidence, and never merely to score points at the expense of a political adversary. So I join Mr. Hinderaker and Mr. McCarthy in asserting that Mr. Limbaugh has never been proved a racist, and that race-baiting is an awful feature of American public discourse. It damages reputations and undermines our ability to target actual racism. Those who engage in it deserve our ire. > > But even a cursory review of Limbaugh’s radio archives reveal the talk radio host to be a frequent race-baiter, one of the guys who obsessively trades on race. > > In fact, based entirely on statements made by Mr. Limbaugh in 2009, one begins to wonder whether he’s been a bigger racial demagogue than even Al Sharpton during that period. > > SOURCE: [http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-10-16/rush-the-race-baiter/?cid=hp:beastoriginalsL1](http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-10-16/rush-the-race-baiter/?cid=hp:beastoriginalsL1) > [@](#): > > \*\*They Don’t Even Disguise The Race-Baiting Any More > \*\* > > I’m sorry but this is outrageous. The story was a classic schoolbus bully incident; it could happen anywhere any time and has happened everywhere at all times with kids of all races, backgrounds and religions. To infer both that it was racially motivated and that this is somehow connected to having a black president is repulsive. I know that is almost de trop with Limbaugh, but sometimes you have to regain a little shock. This man is spewing incendiary racial hatred. He is conjuring up images of lonely whites being besieged by angry violent blacks … based on an incident that had nothing to do with race at all. And why, by the way, does someone immediately go to the racial angle when looking at such a tape? > > SOURCE: [http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the\_daily\_dish/2009/09/they-dont-even-disguise-the-racebaiting-any-more.html](http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/09/they-dont-even-disguise-the-racebaiting-any-more.html) Google it…you’ll find LOTS more. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223/216 "2009-10-17T04:27:37Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Was most likely to illustrate that gang style behavior was taking root in the NFL and nobody was saying or doing anything to put a stop to it (with the implication being that to do so would be considered racist). _Black_ gangs. He could have said it was akin to the Hatfields versus McCoys or Gambinos versus Colombos or Capone versus Moran or the Sharks and the Jets ( 😉 ). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223/217 "2009-10-17T06:10:05Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Was most likely to illustrate that gang style behavior was taking root in the NFL Judges? I’m sorry, the answer is “THEY’RE BLACK.” What is it that makes celebrating a play or trash talking “gang style behavior?” That’s not a gang thing, it’s a jock thing. Was Babe Ruth engaging in gang style behavior when he allegedly called his home run in the 1932 World Series? That’s taunting of the highest order. [Is Mark Gastineau doing gang style behavior here?](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH1k8iJ_DbQ) Is this why people are getting shot in bars? > [@](#): > > and nobody was saying or doing anything to put a stop to it (with the implication being that to do so would be considered racist). The NFL has cracked down on this stuff in recent years. I don’t know if you are a big football fan, but Rush is, so he would know that. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223/218 "2009-10-17T15:01:21Z")
> [@cpastu](#): > > You’ve done it. You’ve exposed me. The few of us on this board who demand a little higher proof than simply “_well..you know what he really means_” before damning another human being are simply modern day George Wallaces. :smack: If the jackboot fits . . . ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223/219 "2009-10-17T16:43:11Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The only issue is the statement itself, not what it might’ve sounded like if somebody else said it. The rest is a waste of time, and in fact it’s usually a deliberate dodge. Really? Earlier you said it was the **context** that mattered. Which is it? I think you are starting to argue with yourself > [@Marley23](#): > > Thank you and goodnight! Point? Limbaugh did not disparage an entire race. Therefore, not racist. > [@Marley23](#): > > And the reason he did this by comparing them to gang members was \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_. See the reply by **Starving Artist** ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223/220 "2009-10-17T16:45:34Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > _Black_ gangs. He could have said it was akin to the Hatfields versus McCoys or Gambinos versus Colombos or Capone versus Moran or the Sharks and the Jets ( 😉 ). And what if the players were white and he compared them to the Hatfields and McCoys? Oh my…he would be racist against whites?!? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223.md?page=12)