# Limbaugh's Bid to Buy the St. Louis Rams **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 9, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223 "2009-10-09T18:48:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2009, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223/261 "2009-10-18T15:38:05Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I’m not seeing how the 14th amendment is germane. Guessing at what you mean, I’d think the equal protection clause pretty much nullifies the ability of a group to discriminate. The 14th Amendment only applies to the government. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2009, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223/262 "2009-10-18T15:51:20Z")
Just to be clear, I wasn’t really laughing at you because you are wrong, **Scylla**. Everyone says something silly from time to time. I was mostly laughing because conservatives have generally fought against any expansion of anti-discrimination laws in the last forty years. Add to that the fact that conservatives are usually the first ones to defend the First Amendment right to discriminate based on the protection of free political expression (see, e.g., Boy Scouts v. Dale), and you can see why the attempt to insert being conservative as a protected characteristic is amusing in the context of the overall gestalt of the contemporary conservative movement. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2009, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223/263 "2009-10-18T15:57:15Z")
**Scylla** , I think you’re conflating two different posts because of the timing of them. The 14th is, to my understanding (though IANAConstitutionalL), why a restaurant can’t kick someone out of a restaurant for being black or gay or whatever. I believe **Marley** was referring to my previous, more wordy post as to why Rush, or Republicans, or Democrats, or libertarians, or communists, are not in a protected class. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2009, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223/264 "2009-10-18T15:58:26Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > You’re confusing your state’s employment law with the Constitution. The Constitution certainly does not prohibit private discrimination on the basis of political belief. Quite the opposite. It protects such discrimination from prohibition in all but some very limited circumstances. I see. While everybody else is talking about the 14th amendment, you are talking about state laws. Bait and switch a little? And no, I’m not confusing state laws with the Constitution. These are federal laws that apply across all states. They include: The civil rights act, The equal pay act, the age discrimination act, etc, and are commonly referred to as the EEOC. State laws may also apply. So, no. Nice try. I’m not confusing anything. > [@](#): > > On another amusing note, I noticed you listed “conservative” alongside “gay” as one of the classes you believe to be protected by the Constitution. Does this mean you also think that sexual orientation is a protected class? I do. Sadly, law may not fully recognize it, but I believe sexual orientation is covered. Why do you find it “amusing?” Perhaps you think being patronizing hides ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2009, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223/265 "2009-10-18T16:05:14Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > And no, I’m not confusing state laws with the Constitution. These are federal laws that apply across all states. They include: The civil rights act, The equal pay act, the age discrimination act, etc, and are commonly referred to as the EEOC. State laws may also apply. > > So, no. Nice try. I’m not confusing anything. It’s hard to believe you’re so ignorant of the law when you apparently need to know it for your job. I mean, being wrong about some issue on a message board is one thing. Being wrong in your actual job is a little worse. Federal law does not prohibit private discrimination, in employment or any other context, on the basis of political belief. Period. If you believe otherwise, feel free to cite for us the federal law protecting political belief from discrimination. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2009, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223/266 "2009-10-18T16:09:03Z")
> [@Raygun99](#): > > **Scylla** , I think you’re conflating two different posts because of the timing of them. The 14th is, to my understanding (though IANAConstitutionalL), why a restaurant can’t kick someone out of a restaurant for being black or gay or whatever. I believe **Marley** was referring to my previous, more wordy post as to why Rush, or Republicans, or Democrats, or libertarians, or communists, are not in a protected class. Actually, most of the federal laws prohibiting private discrimination (the Civil Rights Act), were passed pursuant to the federal government’s power to regulate interstate commerce, not the 14th Amendment. This is because, as **Dio** stated, the 14th applies to state action. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2009, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223/267 "2009-10-18T16:09:39Z")
Moreover, we’re not talking about employment here - we’re talking about the sale of a business. The NFL is under no obligation to let anyone buy a team. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2009, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223/268 "2009-10-18T16:10:42Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Actually, most of the federal laws prohibiting private discrimination (the Civil Rights Act), were passed pursuant to the federal government’s power to regulate interstate commerce, not the 14th Amendment. This is because, as **Dio** stated, the 14th applies to state action. Ah. I see. As I said, IANACL. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2009, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223/269 "2009-10-18T16:14:28Z")
Pretty stunning thread. Bunch of old, rich, white guys decide not to let another old, rich, white guy into their exclusive club, and this is illustrative how liberals are ruining America. Huh. Learn something new every day. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2009, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223/270 "2009-10-18T16:17:14Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Well, if you’re talking about the 14th amendment like Marley and Ray; than you’re wrong. That says it applies to everyone. I’m not. I’m talking about discrimination laws. The 14th Amendment has nothing to do with it. > [@](#): > > Accept that’s not actually true. He wasn’t rejected by the owners but by his own investment group that had originally asked him to join. > > The rejection was because of the media controversy. The media controversy was founded on made up quotes that attribute a racism to Limbaugh that he specifically denies holding. It was not because of a “media controvers” (and the media isthe entity that _told_ a couple of the quotes were unverified), it was because players were saying they would refuse to play for him and a couple of owners were publicly saying they didn’t want to be in business with him. His investment group dumped him because he was poisoning their bid. He is poison not because your imaginary “liberal media” twisted his words or made shit up (they have done neither – the allegedly bogus quotes came from the internet, not from the “MSM”), but because he has built a career from decades of publicly villifying large swaths of the American public (and does so with no shortage of his own fabrications, lies and distortions of his own). It’s his own fault that nobody with any decency can stand him. The “media” has nothing to fucking do with it. He IS the fucking “MSM.” > [@](#): > > Similarly, his comments concerning Mcnabb were pretty clearly twisted. His comments had nothing to do with Mcnabb and his race, but rather others’ perceptions of Mcnabb and his race. When it first happened it wasn’t a big deal. It had to be constructed as one several days later. First of all, it was a false representation of other people’s perceptions. No one else brought McNabb’s race into it but him, and his allegation that people only praised him because he was black had no basis in reality, especially since McNabb was already a multiple MVP at the time. McNabb’s praise was only on the basis of his on the field accomplishments. Black quarterbacks had ceased to be noteworthy in the sports media long before McNabb’s career blew up. Rush was the only one who even noticed what color McNabb was. He was the only one to bring up McNabb’s race. It’s funny how indignant you’re being about people making assumptions about what’s in Rush’s heart, but you pass off his asinine statements about what’s in other people’s hearts as objctive fact. It was a stupid, gratuitus, race-baiting statement that betrayed the race obsession that so often pervades his drug-addled ravings. > [@](#): > > The reason why people think Limbaugh is a racist is because the left constantly accuses him of being one enough to make people believe it. It’s shitty that because they despise Limbaugh’s ideas and standing they attack him rather than his ideas. The reason people think he’s a racist is because he is a persistently race-baiting troll. > [@](#): > > I don’t believe in anarchy which seems to be what you mean when you say “free enterprise.” I believe in regulated capitalism, and I think that one of the purest and best forms of regulation is that which prevents discrimination against people. You believe the government should force people to accept business partners they want? > [@](#): > > I just read the Op-ed that I linked to and said I agreed with. I find nothing in there that says what you say. Your statement appears to be a total fabrication. Perhaps I’m mistaken. Please quote the section that says him getting dumped is Obama’s fault. I already posted the link and the quote upthread. I didn’t say it was in your op-ed. [url=[http://www.bnd.com/sports/story/968190.htmHere[/ur]:](http://www.bnd.com/sports/story/968190.htmHere%5B/ur%5D:) > [@](#): > > Conservative talk show host Rush Limbaugh responded Thursday to being dropped from a group bidding to buy the St. Louis Rams, saying what happened to him was an illustration of “Obama’s America on full display.”… > > … > > “I don’t know how many players know this, but Mr. Smith has let it be known that if he has to he’ll bring the White House into this,” Limbaugh said. "He’ll bring the Congressional Black Caucus into this. So Obama’s America is quite possibly going to include the National Football League, and pressure from Obama, the Congressional Black Caucus and other places might be brought to bear on the owners. I can’t imagine that that’s anything they want. > > “It’s designed to intimidate the owners, frighten the owners, and say 'We’re running this league now, gang, not you.”’ Do you agree or disagree with Limbaugh that him getting dumped by his own business partners is an example of “Obama’s America on full display?” Do you share his terror that “…Obama’s America is quite possibly going to include the National Football League, and pressure from Obama, the Congressional Black Caucus and other places might be brought to bear on the owners?” ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223/271 "2009-10-18T16:19:37Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Just to be clear, I wasn’t really laughing at you because you are wrong, **Scylla**. Everyone says something silly from time to time. I was mostly laughing because conservatives have generally fought against any expansion of anti-discrimination laws in the last forty years. That generalization is too vague to be useful. As a human being and a conservative, I support full equality for all my fellow human beings. One might argue that some anti-discrimination laws are actually discriminatory as they favor minorities over non minorities. I find those troublesome philosophically. I fully admit that Conservatives (with the notable exception of the departed Goldwater) have set a poor example, and betrayed basic principles with their denial of gay civil rights. The left talks a nice game, but I’ve never seen anybody elected do anything about it. > [@](#): > > Add to that the fact that conservatives are usually the first ones to defend the First Amendment right to discriminate based on the protection of free political expression (see, e.g., Boy Scouts v. Dale), and you can see why the attempt to insert being conservative as a protected characteristic is amusing in the context of the overall gestalt of the contemporary conservative movement. I don’t see what one has to do with the other. I don’t think anybody falsely attributed statements to the Boy Scouts and Dale. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2009, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223/272 "2009-10-18T16:20:27Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Pretty stunning thread. Bunch of old, rich, white guys decide not to let another old, rich, white guy into their exclusive club, and this is illustrative how liberals are ruining America. > > Huh. Learn something new every day. Some people just want to see an old, rich white conservative do well as an NFL owner. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2009, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223/273 "2009-10-18T16:23:39Z")
Dio: > [@](#): > > already posted the link and the quote upthread. I didn’t say it was in your op-ed. What I said I agreed with 110% was the OP-Ed. It makes no sense that you would assume that 110% agreement expands to something else. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2009, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223/274 "2009-10-18T16:23:58Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I don’t see what one has to do with the other. I don’t think anybody falsely attributed statements to the Boy Scouts and Dale. Rush wasn’t dumped because of false attributions of quotes, but there would be no law against that anyway. Yiou also don’t seem to understand discrimination law. Federal law does not even include sexual orientation as a protected class, much less political orientation. Maybe your company does, but that would just be your own company policy, not federal law. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2009, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223/275 "2009-10-18T16:26:26Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Dio: > > What I said I agreed with 110% was the OP-Ed. It makes no sense that you would assume that 110% agreement expands to something else. It sounded like you were saying you agreed 110% with Limbaugh, but whatever. Regardless, do you agree with the “Obama’s America” stuff? Yes or no? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2009, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223/276 "2009-10-18T16:29:27Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It sounded like you were saying you agreed 110% with Limbaugh, but whatever. > > Regardless, do you agree with the “Obama’s America” stuff? Yes or no? Neither. Don’t care. Would have to be interested, and would have to see it in full context, as I’m not particularly trusting of others quotations of Limbaugh. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2009, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223/277 "2009-10-18T16:32:47Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Yiou also don’t seem to understand discrimination law. Federal law does not even include sexual orientation as a protected class, much less political orientation. Maybe your company does, but that would just be your own company policy, not federal law. Yes, I understand. That’s why I said " Sadly, law may not fully recognize it, but I believe sexual orientation is covered." It’s covered constitutionally, IMO, but not recognized. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2009, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223/278 "2009-10-18T16:36:34Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > The left talks a nice game, but I’ve never seen anybody elected do anything about it. In 2007, Democrats in the House passed legislation adding sexual orientation to the list of prohibited bases for discrimination, but it couldn’t get 60 votes in the 2007 Senate. It has been re-introduced and will hopefully pass this time around. And that’s just the federal level. Plenty of state-level democrats have passed legislation protecting sexual orientation. While the Democrats haven’t been perfect, the notion that no elected Democrat is fighting for gay rights is, frankly, absurd. > [@Scylla](#): > > I don’t see what one has to do with the other. I don’t think anybody falsely attributed statements to the Boy Scouts and Dale. Among the reasons the federal government not only does not prohibit discrimination on the basis of political beliefs, but indeed _cannot do so_, is that the First Amendment protects the freedom of association. Indeed, the right to freedom of association is even strong to overcome the countervailing state interest in prohibiting sexual orientation discrimination, hence the reference to Dale. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2009, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223/279 "2009-10-18T16:39:41Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Neither. Don’t care. Would have to be interested, and would have to see it in full context, as I’m not particularly trusting of others quotations of Limbaugh. The full context is in the link. I think you just don’t have the guts to give an answer. Let me ask it this way – did Barack Obama have anything to do with Limbaugfh getting dumped from the Rams. Do you believe (regardless of whether you want to admit that Rush said it), that Limbaugh’s ouster is an example of “Obama’s America on full display,” and do you believe that “Obama’s America is quite possibly going to include the National Football League, and pressure from Obama, the Congressional Black Caucus and other places might be brought to bear on the owners?” ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2009, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223/280 "2009-10-18T16:52:52Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The full context is in the link. I think you just don’t have the guts to give an answer. No. I just really don’t care, buddy. I talk about one specific thing, and you’re all about this other thing. > [@](#): > > Let me ask it this way – did Barack Obama have anything to do with Limbaugfh getting dumped from the Rams. I have no fucking clue. > [@](#): > > Do you believe (regardless of whether you want to admit that Rush said it), that Limbaugh’s ouster is an example of “Obama’s America on full display,” I have no fucking clue. Define “Obama’s America on full display” faithfully as Rush defines it. > [@](#): > > and do you believe that “Obama’s America is quite possibly going to include the National Football League, and pressure from Obama, the Congressional Black Caucus and other places might be brought to bear on the owners?” I don’t know what that means. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/limbaughs-bid-to-buy-the-st-louis-rams/513223.md?page=15)