# Lincoln Movie Question
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-movie-question/642042
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [November 25, 2012, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-movie-question/642042 "2012-11-25T05:39:33Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2012, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-movie-question/642042/1 "2012-11-25T05:39:33Z")
I just saw the movie ‘Lincoln’, which is a wonderful picture, and couldn’t help but notice the prominence of Secretary of State William Seward throughout the movie, and the absence of any mention of Andrew Johnson.
I realize that in those days the Vice President didn’t have many official duties or responsibilities, but given that he was a prominent Southern Democrat he must have had some opinion on the 13th amendment, and I assume he was presiding as the President of the Senate when it was passed by that body in 1864.
Is it possible Johnson was not at all involved in any of the crucial cabinet meetings with Lincoln leading up to the showdown in the House, or did Spielberg just decide to write him out of the story?
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### Author:  [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2012, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-movie-question/642042/2 "2012-11-25T05:47:03Z")
Actually he wasn’t Lincoln’s VP in 1864…
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### Author:  [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2012, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-movie-question/642042/3 "2012-11-25T06:10:56Z")
Hannibal Hamlin was Vice President until March 4, 1865, and at any rate in those days VPs wouldn’t necessarily attend Cabinet meetings. Johnson was only Lincoln’s VP for about six weeks before becoming president.
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### Author:  [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2012, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-movie-question/642042/4 "2012-11-25T06:44:18Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#):
>
> Actually he wasn’t Lincoln’s VP in 1864…
… He was Military Governor of his native state, Tennessee.
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### Author:  [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2012, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-movie-question/642042/5 "2012-11-25T07:26:41Z")
> [@Colibri](#):
>
> Hannibal Hamlin was Vice President until March 4, 1865, and at any rate in those days VPs wouldn’t necessarily attend Cabinet meetings. Johnson was only Lincoln’s VP for about six weeks before becoming president.
IIRC the VP stopped being invited to Cabinet meetings during the 1st Washington administration and didn’t resume attandence until the 1950s.
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### Author:  [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2012, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-movie-question/642042/6 "2012-11-25T07:36:03Z")
Harrison Ford supposedly was cast to play Johnson, but the role was eliminated.
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### Author:  [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2012, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-movie-question/642042/7 "2012-11-25T07:39:14Z")
Oh-- [link](http://www.lincolnstudies.com/archives/169).
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### Author:  [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2012, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-movie-question/642042/8 "2012-11-25T17:19:59Z")
Thanks. That makes sense. I forgot how detached the VP was back in the day.
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### Author:  [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-movie-question/642042/9 "2012-11-25T20:53:32Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#):
>
> Thanks. That makes sense. I forgot how detached the VP was back in the day.
Listen to a Joe Biden speech, and you’ll see at least some VPs are still pretty detached.
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2012, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-movie-question/642042/10 "2012-11-25T21:22:40Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#):
>
> I just saw the movie ‘Lincoln’, which is a wonderful picture, and couldn’t help but notice the prominence of Secretary of State William Seward throughout the movie, and the absence of any mention of Andrew Johnson.
Remember as well that Seward had been a long-standing abolitionist, an early and prominent member of the Republican party, and one of the leading candidates for the party’s presidential nomination in 1860; Lincoln’s nomination victory was a come-from-behind thing; Seward was sitting in his garden back home in Massachusetts, expecting the telegram telling him he was the nominee.
Once Lincoln nominated him to Secretary of State and he swallowed his resentment, Seward became one of Lincoln’s closest advisors.
In short, Seward was much more important to the Republican party and its dynamics than Johnson, the southern Democrat.
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### Author:  [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2012, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-movie-question/642042/11 "2012-11-25T21:36:34Z")
As others have said: look at the official copy of the 13th Amendment. It is signed H. Hamlin as President of the Senate (Vice-President).
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### Author:  [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)
#### Post date: [November 26, 2012, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-movie-question/642042/12 "2012-11-26T02:07:54Z")
I’m still wondering why they cast Sally Field (age 66) as Mary Lincoln (age 47 in 1865).
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### Author:  [@wedgehed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wedgehed)
#### Post date: [November 26, 2012, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-movie-question/642042/13 "2012-11-26T02:23:49Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#):
>
> Once Lincoln nominated him to Secretary of State and he swallowed his resentment, Seward became one of Lincoln’s closest advisors.
If I recall correctly, Seward had to be bitch-slapped a few times before he fell into line.
ETA: The TV production of Gore Vidal’s _Lincoln_ covered this pretty well. Sam Waterson was good as Abe.
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [November 26, 2012, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-movie-question/642042/14 "2012-11-26T03:08:01Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#):
>
> Listen to a Joe Biden speech, and you’ll see at least some VPs are still pretty detached.
I watched him whup some kid in a debate recently, Biden didnt seem all that detached…😛
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [November 26, 2012, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-movie-question/642042/15 "2012-11-26T03:09:09Z")
> [@dropzone](#):
>
> I’m still wondering why they cast Sally Field (age 66) as Mary Lincoln (age 47 in 1865).
Mary looked even older than Sally does now.
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### Author:  [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)
#### Post date: [November 26, 2012, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-movie-question/642042/16 "2012-11-26T03:23:29Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#):
>
> Listen to a Joe Biden speech, and you’ll see at least some VPs are still pretty detached.
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> I watched him whup some kid in a debate recently, Biden didnt seem all that detached…😛
**Moderator Note**
Let’s keep the political commentary out of GQ.
Colibri
General Questions Moderator
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### Author:  [@williamweigand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/williamweigand)
#### Post date: [November 26, 2012, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-movie-question/642042/17 "2012-11-26T14:43:11Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#):
>
> Remember as well that Seward had been a long-standing abolitionist, an early and prominent member of the Republican party, and one of the leading candidates for the party’s presidential nomination in 1860; Lincoln’s nomination victory was a come-from-behind thing; Seward was sitting in his garden back home in Massachusetts, expecting the telegram telling him he was the nominee.
>
> Once Lincoln nominated him to Secretary of State and he swallowed his resentment, Seward became one of Lincoln’s closest advisors.
>
> In short, Seward was much more important to the Republican party and its dynamics than Johnson, the southern Democrat.
I live in Auburn, New York. William Seward’s mansion, and garden, are located here. If he also lived in Massachusetts… well, you’ve inspired me to look that up when I’m finished reading the Dope.
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### Author:  [@williamweigand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/williamweigand)
#### Post date: [November 26, 2012, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-movie-question/642042/18 "2012-11-26T15:16:34Z")
Just scanned the wikipedia article on Mr. Seward - saw no mention of Massachusetts.
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### Author:  [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)
#### Post date: [November 26, 2012, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-movie-question/642042/19 "2012-11-26T20:17:45Z")
No wonder he didn’t get the telegram!
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### Author:  [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)
#### Post date: [November 26, 2012, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-movie-question/642042/20 "2012-11-26T21:32:55Z")
> [@dropzone](#):
>
> I’m still wondering why they cast Sally Field (age 66) as Mary Lincoln (age 47 in 1865).
Because they needed a short actress who was willing to appear about 50 years old?
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