# Lincoln - "oln" pronounced "en"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 19, 2025, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-oln-pronounced-en/1022291 "2025-08-19T22:25:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-oln-pronounced-en/1022291/21 "2025-08-20T10:12:59Z")
I’m reminded of a Scottish friend who corrected me when I tried to pronounce the British name “Featherstonehaugh.” “It’s ‘Fanshaw,’ laddie.” Thanks, buddy! He also taught me about single-malt Scotches. But sometimes, British spellings and pronunciations are vastly different. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-oln-pronounced-en/1022291/22 "2025-08-20T10:27:25Z")
I want to go to the store and ask for some Bruthach a’ Chladaich whisky, but first I need to figure out how to say it. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-oln-pronounced-en/1022291/23 "2025-08-20T10:35:05Z")
I find it very difficult to throw that /l/ in there before the /n/ in an unaccented syllable. I think that, if I saw “-oln” in any other word, I would wind up leaving out the /l/ there as well. If not, the /n/ would come out weird. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-oln-pronounced-en/1022291/24 "2025-08-20T10:37:45Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > I want to go to the store and ask for some Bruthach a’ Chladaich whisky, but first I need to figure out how to say it. You need to practise the back-of-the-throat aspirated “ch” sound. Gaelic is a generally soft-sounding language. Here you go: > **[LearnGaelic - Dictionary](https://learngaelic.scot/dictionary/index.jsp?abairt=bruthach&slang=both&wholeword=false)** > > Search the English to Gaelic LearnGaelic dictionary for words, phrases and idioms with audio sound files. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-oln-pronounced-en/1022291/25 "2025-08-20T11:28:06Z")
Are you sure about that (I mean, the sequence in which the spelling and pronunciation of “lieutenant” were established)? “Lieutenant” derives from French “lieu” (place) and “tenant” (a participle of “tenir”, to hold). So literally, a lieutenant is someone who holds a command as a deputy for some superior during the latter’s absence. And this French origin makes it highly likely that the spelling has always been “lieu”. ---
**Author:** ![yendis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ed8c4c/32.png) [@yendis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yendis)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-oln-pronounced-en/1022291/26 "2025-08-20T12:56:47Z")
It does derive from the French but there are spellings indicating a pronounced eff sound from as early as the 14th century. [Cite](https://www.etymonline.com/word/lieutenant). ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-oln-pronounced-en/1022291/27 "2025-08-20T13:07:17Z")
I’ll add “Words Unraveled” to those excellent recommendations. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-oln-pronounced-en/1022291/28 "2025-08-20T13:18:30Z")
> [@yendis](#): > > there are spellings indicating a pronounced eff sound from as early as the 14th century. That might be because of writing a v where we now write u. Interestingly, or oddly, while the British Army ranks include a “Second Lefftenant”, the Royal Navy has a (much more senior) “First Lootenant”. Same spelling. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-oln-pronounced-en/1022291/29 "2025-08-20T13:31:34Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > Now that this has been answered, let’s tackle > > libary > > Febuary I’ve never heard those as correct pronunciation. In grade school nuns have killed over less. They really grate on my ears when I hear them, like “nucular” instead of “nuclear”. ---
**Author:** ![yendis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ed8c4c/32.png) [@yendis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yendis)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-oln-pronounced-en/1022291/30 "2025-08-20T13:36:53Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > Interestingly, or oddly, while the British Army ranks include a “Second Lefftenant”, the Royal Navy has a (much more senior) “First Lootenant”. Same spelling. Royal Navy is also leftentant, same as many Commonwealth Navy’s. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-oln-pronounced-en/1022291/31 "2025-08-20T13:39:08Z")
I say “library” but I generally go “Febuary” in most settings as “February” sounds a bit affected, maybe, in my dialect. I don’t think anybody would say anything, but it just sounds a little out of place. My wife also says “Febuary,” and we’re both Great Lakes dialect (though me Chicago, her Buffalo). Neither of us are illiterate dummies, by a long shot. That’s just how we talk. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-oln-pronounced-en/1022291/32 "2025-08-20T13:46:30Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > That was the word I couldn’t think of! > > Now that this has been answered, let’s tackle > > libary > > Febuary > > and of course, the U.S. pronunciation of colonel. All of these are a similar phenomenon - certain phonemes are hard to pronounce back to back and speakers tend to be lazy. I don’t say “Febuary”, but when speaking quickly will probably say something more like “Febrerry”. Although saying it repeatedly now I guess a few times it does come out more like “Febuary” occasionally. “Library” is easier - the “rary” sound is simpler than “ruary”. Those two “r”s with different vowels trailing and trailing each is very easy to mush together into something simpler. Because “r” isn’t a “real” consonant, as I understand it. It’s an approximate that changes based on the vowel sounds around it. ETA: “Kernel” is just because when English borrowed it from French it was “coronel” (at least some of the time). It changed in French to “colonel” and for some reason English writers decided the new French spelling was correct even though English never pronounced it that way. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-oln-pronounced-en/1022291/33 "2025-08-20T13:49:45Z")
“UN” “Linkun” ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-oln-pronounced-en/1022291/34 "2025-08-20T13:54:05Z")
There goes my weekend! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-oln-pronounced-en/1022291/35 "2025-08-20T14:01:29Z")
“That bottle there, please.” ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-oln-pronounced-en/1022291/36 "2025-08-20T14:46:47Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > You might like either of my two favorite language podcasts, “Because Language” and “Lexicon Valley.” I also highly recommend History of English Podcast ([https://historyofenglishpodcast.com/](https://historyofenglishpodcast.com/)), which is hundreds of episodes that work chronologically through the history of English starting with proto-Indo-European. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-oln-pronounced-en/1022291/37 "2025-08-20T14:52:06Z")
> [@mixdenny](#): > > Was it really supposed to be “oln” and we just slur it? I don’t know the answer for this specific word but I have listened to dozens of language podcast episodes. There are many words that were originally from older forms of English where all the letters were pronounced (as in draught, where the guttural “gh” eventually became “f”) and became elided over time, or were elided when we borrowed it from another language because the sounds didn’t work well in English (colonel). I am guessing that originally it was pronounced how it’s spelled. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-oln-pronounced-en/1022291/38 "2025-08-20T14:52:42Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > Interestingly, or oddly, while the British Army ranks include a “Second Lefftenant”, the Royal Navy has a (much more senior) “First Lootenant”. Same spelling. Much as the U.S. Army has First and Second Lieutenants, but the U.S. Navy has Lieutenants and Lieutenants Junior Grade. (All pronounced “Lootenant,” natch.) ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2025, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-oln-pronounced-en/1022291/39 "2025-08-21T03:54:28Z")
> [@Zoobi](#): > > Malcolm is similar Also the common Scottish surname Chisholm, pronounced Chizəm. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2025, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-oln-pronounced-en/1022291/40 "2025-08-21T06:59:13Z")
Isn’t “salmon” with its silent L a similar case (but not involving a proper name)? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-oln-pronounced-en/1022291.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lincoln-oln-pronounced-en/1022291.md?page=3)