Lincoln - "oln" pronounced "en"?

I read something once that the spellings were the result of the first English language bible, printed in the Netherlands since England at the time was Catholic and had a low tolerance for protestant nonsense like actually being able to read the bible. The Dutch had a more “rough” or gutteral pronunciation of the “ough” and “augh” as English was spoken at the time, so that’s the way things were spelled out.

When have you heard an English speaker “correctly” pronounce any of the consonants in “van Gogh”? However, Scotland was also a Catholic country until 1560…

Yep. But I have heard a number of people pronounce the “L” including my wife.

Was the friend’s name Marjoriebanks (pronounced Marchbanks)? Incidentally, in Canada lieutenant (= in place of the holder) is also pronounced lefftenant.

Sorry, I just saw the reply from @Schnitte which explains it better.

I’ve always heard it pronounced: LEEN kun

Unless you are pronouncing LIN as LEEN

Pronouncing it LIN-kun (short I) sounds funny to my ears.

ETA: I would pronounce LIN-kun as Lynn kun

It’s not really that. For me it’s more of a short “I”, but it’s not an “n” but a nasal. Like in “link,” but not in “Lynn.”

Maybe it’s regional, but where I grew up (and we ate a lot of links) it was pronounced leenks.

FWIW, the dictionaries only list one pronunciation, as ˈliŋk

or [lingk]

or IPA /lɪŋk/

All those “i” sounds are the same “i” as in “pin,” but when it comes behind a nasalized “n,” it does tend to kinda almost seem like an “ee.”

I know I definitely do not say “leenks.” That would sound different in my Great Lakes (Inland Northern American) accent.

Say what? That’s just bizarre. Maybe in a stereotypical Hispanic accent but I have never heard Lincoln pronounced that way.

How do you pronounce leeway? In a stereotypical Hispanic accent?

it’s the same LEE sound as in leeway or leeward.

ETA: I just listened to Commander Cody. To my ear he pronounces it Hot Rod Leenkun.

Huh? Leeway has the “lee” sound in it. Lincoln does not. “Leencoln sounds like the cartoon Speedy Gonzalez accent.

I get what you’re saying, but for me (as for pulykamell), the “n” forces me to say the “i” a little closer to “ee” than a typical short i (as in “pin”).

There are two things that typically distinguish “i” from “ee”: the tongue (higher for “ee”) and, less importantly for the sound, the lips (smiling for “ee”). The stereotypical Spanish accent requires both, while the “n”-forced change only (partially) requires the former. So, you’re both right, IMHO.

I just realized it isn’t the “n” alone that forces the subtle vowel change; it’s the “nk” combo sound. Note how your tongue anticipates the “k", and sets up for it at the same time as the “n” (effectively making an “ng” sound, a single phoneme in IPA).

I realized this because saying “Lin” (as in “Linda”) doesn’t force the vowel change. (But note how “ling,” as in “bowling,” does.)

I see pulykamell beat me to the punch - as has happened quite a few times over the decades. :wink:

Sorry for the triple post – my last words on the subject:

Note that “-k” alone, like “-n” alone, doesn’t force the subtle vowel change. (“Lick” has the fully “short i” sound). It’s the combination – again, because “nk” actually must be pronounced “ngk.” That’s not about any dialect, it’s just tongue physics, and it’s the “ng” that forces the vowel change (that part might vary a little among dialects, but I’d wager it’s always there at least a little).

What about “g”? A voiced “k” – tongue hits the roof in the same place, but because it’s voiced, it sticks there a little longer. I predicted it would force a following “i” toward “ee” just a tiny bit – less than with “ng,” which requires even more of the tongue to be pressed against the palate – and, sure enough, that’s true, at least in my dialect.

In other words, I pronounce the vowel in “lig” (as in “ligament”) just slightly towards the one in “league” (but without smiling, as I do for “league”) – unlike the vowel in, say, “lit” or “lin” or “lid.”

Hmm.

I don’t pronounce the second L in Lincoln, but it’s presence influences me to say “con,” not a schwa for the second syllable, an I wonder if that’s why it’s been retained.

To cite other examples of a silent L: In British English, “falcon” is commonly pronounced “FAW-ken”; this differs from the American pronunciation, which to my knowledge prefers “FAL-ken” (with the first syllable rhyming with “pal”). And then, there are, of course, words like “balm” and “palm”, where AFAIK the pronunciation without the L predominates in both the UK and the US.

And I’m saying, regionally where I’m from, it does. But it does not sound anymore like the Frito Bandito that saying leeway… unless you go out of your way to.

This link uses the pronunciation ling·kn. The ‘I’ in their pronunciation is some where between Lynn and ding. I’ve only heard ding pronounced as deeng.

@Lucas_Jackson

well, I expect LEAN and LEEN are pronounced the same here, so your pronunciation is an accepted one. Sorry about the ‘abomination’ bit. :grimacing:

It’s all good. Thanks.

Saw this last week on a computer I wasn’t logged in on and assumed someone else would come in to correct it.

No, falcon is never pronounced “fawken” in standard British English. I’m not sure what would have given you that impression. It’s always pronounced something like FALL-con*, with the ‘o’ being a schwa. Even in dialects where a ‘ll’ becomes a ‘w’, like Cockney or in some parts of Scotland, I don’t think you’d here ‘fawken’ much, or at all.

*‘FALL’ here being pronounced like the verb ‘fall’.