# Linda Rondstat thrown out of casino for supporting Michael Moore! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 20, 2004, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linda-rondstat-thrown-out-of-casino-for-supporting-michael-moore/255915 "2004-07-20T01:13:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linda-rondstat-thrown-out-of-casino-for-supporting-michael-moore/255915/161 "2004-07-21T06:40:40Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > Then, they go to Ronstadt’s concert and are treated to her admonitions that Moore – this person they despise and who they think is leading the country to ruin – is a “patriot” and that they should go see his film to learn the “truth” about what is going on in this country. Um, you know, it’s kind of sad that someone might think that the person responsible for leading your country to ruin might be Michael Moore, and not, you know, the damned fool that’s actually leading your country. With regard to the “distortions” that Bush supporters perceive in _Fahrenheit 9/11_– fella, that’s anamorphosis, right there. ---
**Author:** ![malkavia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malkavia/32/5621_2.png) [@malkavia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/malkavia)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linda-rondstat-thrown-out-of-casino-for-supporting-michael-moore/255915/162 "2004-07-21T06:43:10Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > As it is, we on the right feel that the left has an unfair advantage in espousing its point of view, and perhaps even appearing to be the accepted and predominate way of thinking, due to the predominance of the liberal position in the news media, Hollywood, and the entertainment industry in general. Damnit. Where the hell is this liberal media that everyone speaks of? I’ve tried Fox and CNN, but no luck so far. Hm. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linda-rondstat-thrown-out-of-casino-for-supporting-michael-moore/255915/163 "2004-07-21T06:43:32Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > I can understand how this would appear hypocritical to you, but it really isn’t. It’s not so much that I’m annoyed that there aren’t as many entertainers doing the same thing for my side as it is that more entertainers speaking out on my side would be a neutralizing factor. Same with the news. **If there were as many right-leaning news programs as there are left-leaning news programs, the left-leaning programs wouldn’t seem so egregious.** Everything would be “fair and balanced.” 😃 > > As it is, we on the right feel that the **left has an unfair advantage in espousing its point of view** , and perhaps even appearing to be the accepted and predominate way of thinking, due to the **predominance of the liberal position in the news media** , Hollywood, and the entertainment industry in general. Omigod! You’re really serious, aren’t you? I don’t know what to say. I’m dumbstruck. No wonder you believe all the crap the administration slings out. > [@Starving Artist](#): > > many on the right are perfectly aware of what a skillful job Moore did in distorting the “facts” “Facts” in quotes seems to be another way of saying “lying.” If wishes were horses, how beggars would ride. Saying it over and over again doesn’t make it so. > [@Starving Artist](#): > > to present a very damaging image of Bush and his administration, and that his movie might have a **very damaging effect for their side in the upcoming election.** We can only hope and pray. You’re the first conservative I’ve heard express worry publically. Cool! Did I mention that F9/11 has made almost $100 mil and that a majority of Americans plan to see it (so says [Gallup](http://www.gallup.com/content/default.aspx?ci=12379))? And that the DVD is coming out in October? And that there will be millions of copies out there, available in every video store and through thousands of on-line retail establishments too? I fervently hope that it will be cheap, to encourage more people to buy it rather than just rent it. If we’re lucky, maybe the cable channels will have it prior to election day. Wheeeeee! > [@Starving Artist](#): > > In other words, we on the right have reason to fear Moore’s movie because we believe it will add fuel to the fire of those who are already rabidly leftist, and that it could fool the fence-sitters and the uninitiated into voting left simply by virtue of its own outrageous distortions. More likely, they’re worried that the truth will come out. People are starting to wake up and look around. This is my new favorite song. The Dems should use it. [Waking Up](http://vickie.teemingmillions.com/HappyRhodes_Warpaint01_WakingUp.mp3) We’re waking up Yes it’s good We’re waking up Like I knew we would There’s a breath of hope For everyone to share There’s a growing force Of people who care In all the years of struggle It seems we’re making way I have never been afraid to Change the circumstances Of the world Cobwebs everywhere It’s time for a deep sweep (C) 1991 Happy Rhodes (she does NOT mind it being shared as long as it’s not for profit) > [@Starving Artist](#): > > These people walk around carrying these fears and worries in their day-to-day lives, but saying nothing. Then, they go to Ronstadt’s concert and are treated to her admonitions that Moore – this person they despise and who they think is **leading the country to ruin** – is a “patriot” and that they should go see his film to learn the “truth” about what is going on in this country. They feel they \*\*already know the truth \*\* and they’re damn unhappy about it. So they finally get enough upon hearing her arrogant and condescending preachings and vent their pent up fear and anger by storming out and tearing up posters. You guys kill me! This is one of the best/funniest posts I’ve ever read. Thank you! ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linda-rondstat-thrown-out-of-casino-for-supporting-michael-moore/255915/164 "2004-07-21T06:50:00Z")
Here’s Linda’s side of it. The article is available registration-only, but registration is free. > [@](#): > > [Ronstadt Has No Regrets for Concert Comments](http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-072004ronstadt_lat,1,1452485.story?coll=la-home-headlines) > > Singer said she had never heard a hall so powerfully divided each night between hisses and hurrahs after she suggested audience see Michael Moore’s “Fahrenheit 9/11.” > > By Geoff Boucher and Robert Hilburn, Times Staff Writers > > Three days after the dust-up in the desert, Linda Ronstadt said she had no regrets about using her concert microphone to amplify the politics of filmmaker Michael Moore and his big-screen polemic “Fahrenheit 9/11.” > > “I think it was a modest thing I did,” the 58-year-old singer said today as she reflected on a Saturday night show at the Aladdin Casino and Resort in Las Vegas that ended with a portion of the audience reacting angrily to her comments. The fans weren’t the only ones riled up — the casino president was in attendance and has since banned her from the venue. > > There have been about 100 calls for refunds but Ronstadt, who is in Los Angeles preparing for her show at the Universal Amphitheatre, said she will continue to give fans some food for thought from the stage. > > “This is an election year. I want people to get their head up out of their mashed potatoes and learn something about the issues and go and vote,” she said by phone. “I’m not telling them how to vote. I’m saying, get information about the issues.” > > What the singer said just before the final encore in Las Vegas was the same stage line she has been using to introduce the song “Desperado” around the country since she saw the Moore documentary “Fahrenheit 9/11”: "I’ll say, I think there’s this guy who is a great patriot and I think he loves his country deeply and that he’s trying to get the truth out . . . then I say his name is Michael Moore and I’ve just been to see his fine movie, “Fahrenheit 9/11.” > > Ronstadt, a longtime liberal activist, has often shared her political and social views, whether she was singing at the No Nukes concert series or jabbing at Enron executives by giving them a pointed dedication of “Straighten Up and Fly Right.” > > Through the years, though, Ronstadt has never heard a hall so powerfully divided each night between hisses and hurrahs. She heard it from the first night she offered the comments about Moore’s film. > > “At first there’s just silence, then there’s “Yeah!” and then there’s 'Boo!” and then the audience starts fighting with each other," she recalled. “You know how they say we are just polarized down the middle? I’ve done this all across the country and I’m telling you, it’s like my independent poll. I have never seen a reaction like this, in all my years of touring.” > > According to press accounts of the Las Vegas show, Ronstadt’s comments were met with loud boos, tossed cocktails and defaced concert posters in the lobby. Bill Timmins, president of the Aladdin, was quoted by the Associated Press as saying: “It was a very ugly scene. She praised him [Moore] and all of a sudden all bedlam broke loose.” The executive said he didn’t allow Ronstadt back in her luxury suite and she was escorted off the property. “As long as I’m here, she’s not going to play.” Timmins was no longer available to discuss the matter, a casino spokeswoman said. > > Ronstadt said the casino management is guilty of some hyperbole. “They didn’t throw me out. I didn’t even know there was trouble. I didn’t know they were mad. . . . Those places operate like little city-states. They are all powerful. And I had already said I never want to come back.” > > Ronstadt’s scrap in Vegas comes within days of Elton John complaining that singers are pressured to eschew political commentary. A few weeks ago, Neil Youg bemoaned the music industry’s impulse to neuter political songs. > > Ronstadt said her career zenith in the 1970s is long gone and that in a quasi-retirement mode she has the success and boldness to say what she thinks. “Clear Channel can’t threaten to not play my records because they are not going to play them anyway,” she said of the radio conglomerate that has been frequently criticized for muting criticism of the Bush Administration. > > Ronstadt said that she purposely keeps the comments about the film brief. The reason is she has found that too much political revelation can tarnish a concert. > > “I know it’s hard for an audience. . . . If I go to a show and if I find out someone is a right wing Christian or a Republican, and I really like their show, it still puts kind of a cloud over it to know,” she said. “But I’ve kind of got used to that. I don’t particularly like to be preached to, so I’ve limited my remarks to just saying I think he’s a great American and a great patriot, and that I recommend that they see his movie.” > > Ronstadt has a few West Coast dates left and already the management at one of them, Konocti Harbor Resort and Spa in Kelseyville, Calif., has called her agent to ask what they might expect from her show. > > For Ronstadt, the call of activism echoes louder than catcalls. > > “We have to stick together,” she said. “I just think we can’t take this lying down. It’s like the Weimar Republic… these [neo-conservative] people are taking over the government. People are sound asleep and I don’t think this is the time to back down.” ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linda-rondstat-thrown-out-of-casino-for-supporting-michael-moore/255915/165 "2004-07-21T07:06:04Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > Um, you know, it’s kind of sad that someone might think that the person responsible for leading your country to ruin might be Michael Moore, and not, you know, the damned fool that’s actually leading your country. Please try to remember that this is only your opinion and not a fact. As I’ve said before, I’m quite damn pleased with Mr. Bush my own self! > [@Larry Mudd](#): > > With regard to the “distortions” that Bush supporters perceive in _Fahrenheit 9/11_– fella, that’s anamorphosis, right there. Oh, yeah? Oh, yeah? Well…well…uh… ::stalls for time while reaching for dictionary:: Aha! Here it is! Well, any anamorphosis going on is all yours, my friend. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linda-rondstat-thrown-out-of-casino-for-supporting-michael-moore/255915/166 "2004-07-21T07:15:27Z")
> [@malkavia](#): > > Damnit. Where the hell is this liberal media that everyone speaks of? I’ve tried Fox and CNN, but no luck so far. > > Hm. It’s kind of like Moore’s dishonesty. Everyone knows it’s there but it’s hard to pinpoint. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linda-rondstat-thrown-out-of-casino-for-supporting-michael-moore/255915/167 "2004-07-21T07:29:51Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > . . . we on the right feel that the left has an unfair advantage in espousing its point of view . . . due to the predominance of the liberal position in the news media . . . Dude, pull your head out of the sand; there hasn’t been a “liberal bias in the media” for 25 years, and no one has used that phrase seriously since Clinton’s presidency. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linda-rondstat-thrown-out-of-casino-for-supporting-michael-moore/255915/168 "2004-07-21T07:35:57Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > It’s kind of like Moore’s dishonesty. Everyone knows it’s there but it’s hard to pinpoint. 😃 Talk about honesty, that casino owner must be taking tips from Bush’s posse. > [@](#): > > [Aladdin officials defend eviction of singer after political comments](http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2004/Jul-20-Tue-2004/news/24348468.html) > By MIKE WEATHERFORD > REVIEW-JOURNAL > > Singer evicted from Aladdin hotel after praising filmmaker Michael Moore > > Aladdin officials said Monday the decision to evict singer Linda Ronstadt from their hotel Saturday was not a partisan political response but an attempt to “defuse the situation” with an angry crowd. > > **"It was a very ugly scene,"** Aladdin President Bill Timmins told The Associated Press. “She praised (filmmaker Michael Moore), and \*\*all of a sudden all bedlam broke loose.” \*\* > > “It did not come down to the statements she had said, per se,” hotel spokeswoman Tyri Squyres said Monday of the 58-year-old singer, who dedicated her encore song “Desperado” to Moore and encouraged the audience to see his film “Fahrenheit 9/11.” > > “We needed her off the property,” Squyres said of Timmins’ decision to check the singer out of her room and escort her from the hotel. “She wanted to incite the audience, and she incited them to the point where they were very upset.” > > Squyres said Timmins is a British citizen, and the hotel’s position would have been the same had Ronstadt taken the opposite political stand. “It’s about using our venue for political commentary versus being an entertainer,” she said. “She was hired to entertain, not to preach.” > > Ronstadt’s eviction was “very polite, very professional,” Squyres said. > > The singer had no comment on the issue, her publicist said Monday. > > Moore’s Web site, [http://michaelmoore.com](http://michaelmoore.com), headed its home page Monday with Ronstadt’s “Living in the USA” album cover and the phrase, “Thank you, Linda Ronstadt!” > > An unspecified number of ticket refund requests had been forwarded to Ronstadt’s management by the hotel, which took the financial risk for the show. The hotel also received more than 500 calls on Monday, both for and against the hotel’s treatment of the singer, Squyres noted. > > **Some concertgoers took issue with the Aladdin’s accounts of angry patrons tearing down posters and throwing drink cups.** > > \*\*“I was so stunned to read in the newspaper that anyone had a negative reaction,” said KLAS-TV, Channel 8, news anchor Paula Francis. “Everyone who was leaving when I was leaving was just thrilled. They thought it was a good concert.” > > At the end of an hour’s worth of singing, “she got a standing ovation, then she came out and did the (`Desperado’) encore,” Francis said. “There were loud boos and there was quite a bit of applause. But everyone calmed down right away and seemed to enjoy the rest of the encore.” \*\* > > Other concertgoers said the audience was unruly and hard-drinking from the beginning. Some expected a classic rock hits revue and were confused by the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra performance of George Gershwin’s “Rhapsody in Blue” that opened the show. > > During the concert, Ronstadt criticized the hotel’s marketing, disputing signage that promised a greatest hits revue. (Print ads said, “Linda Ronstadt and the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra plus her band, performing her `greatest rock hits’ and the great American standards.”) > > The singer has long been aligned with liberal politics, and was romantically involved with then-California Gov. Jerry Brown in the late 1970s. In an interview before the concert, Ronstadt noted she had been doing the Moore dedication at all her concert stops to mixed reaction. > > The Bush administration is “awful, and so lying and so deceitful. And they’re doing so much harm. They’re making it more dangerous for us. They have to be stopped, I think. We have to throw the neocons out,” she said in the interview. > > Gaming regulators are expected to consider in August a licensing application from a new ownership group planning to buy the Aladdin and relaunch it as Planet Hollywood. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linda-rondstat-thrown-out-of-casino-for-supporting-michael-moore/255915/169 "2004-07-21T07:36:55Z")
Having reread the rest of your post: You’ve given the lamest rationalization of an enlargement of government into the private freedoms of individuals that I have ever come across. You’re not a republican. I don’t like to use words like “fascist” in casual conversation, but your whining for an uncriticized government over and above the freedoms of individual citizens is a brilliant textbook example of fascist thought. Sheesh; this thread has gone from ridiculous to chilling pretty quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linda-rondstat-thrown-out-of-casino-for-supporting-michael-moore/255915/170 "2004-07-21T07:37:57Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Omigod! You’re really serious, aren’t you? I don’t know what to say. I’m dumbstruck. No wonder you believe all the crap the administration slings out. Yep. And ya know something else even more scary? There are millions and millions and millions just like me. And we are puffed! 😃 > [@Equipoise](#): > > “Facts” in quotes seems to be another way of saying “lying.” If the shoe fits… > [@Equipoise](#): > > We can only hope and pray. You’re the first conservative I’ve heard express worry publically. Cool! Well, I was advised by a liberal I nonetheless have regard for that I should try to calmly explain things from the conservative viewpoint rather than just going at it bare-knuckles like I’m more inclined to do on occasion. This was an attempt to do so. > [@Equipoise](#): > > Did I mention that F9/11 has made almost $100 mil and that a majority of Americans plan to see it… I’m sure you believe this but I don’t for a minute. A _majority_ of Americans haven’t even seen LOTR or Spidey II. A majority of Americans engaging in any specific activity is quite a rarety if it happens at all, and I’m sure Moore’s propaganda film falls way short in this regard. > [@Equipoise](#): > > This is my new favorite song. The Dems should use it. > > [Waking Up](http://vickie.teemingmillions.com/HappyRhodes_Warpaint01_WakingUp.mp3) > > We’re waking up > Yes it’s good > We’re waking up > Like I knew we would > > There’s a breath of hope > For everyone to share > There’s a growing force > Of people who care > > In all the years of struggle > It seems we’re making way > I have never been afraid to > Change the circumstances > Of the world > > Cobwebs everywhere > It’s time for a deep sweep > (C) 1991 Happy Rhodes (she does NOT mind it being shared as long as it’s not for profit) And you are _how_ old? > [@Equipoise](#): > > You guys kill me! This is one of the best \ posts I’ve ever read. Thank you! No, thank you! I’m glad you approve of it. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linda-rondstat-thrown-out-of-casino-for-supporting-michael-moore/255915/171 "2004-07-21T07:38:43Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Having reread the rest of your post . . . (The above was meant for Snarling Fascist. Sorry; Starving Artist. Equipoise knows that, but others may not. Sorry if unclear.) ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linda-rondstat-thrown-out-of-casino-for-supporting-michael-moore/255915/172 "2004-07-21T07:43:29Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > (The above was meant for Snarling Fascist. Sorry; Starving Artist. Equipoise knows that, but others may not. Sorry if unclear.) Thanks. I was just about to ask you what you were talking about. I appreciate the clarification. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linda-rondstat-thrown-out-of-casino-for-supporting-michael-moore/255915/173 "2004-07-21T07:58:46Z")
> [@](#): > > For Ronstadt, the call of activism echoes louder than catcalls. > > “We have to stick together,” she said. “I just think we can’t take this lying down. It’s like the Weimar Republic… these [neo-conservative] people are taking over the government. People are sound asleep and I don’t think this is the time to back down.” A little something from _The Divine Invasion_ for the quasi-schizophrenic Dickheads: > [@](#): > > “You fell asleep, Herb Asher, because a voice told you to fall asleep. This world here, this planet, all of it, all its people-everything here sleeps. I have watched it for ten years and there is nothing good I can say about it. What you did it does; what you were it is. Maybe you still sleep. Do you sleep, Herb Asher?” > > […] > > That night as he slept, Herb Asher dreamed that a woman was singing to him. She seemed to be Linda Fox and yet she was not; he could see her and he saw terrible beauty, a wildness and light and a sweet glowing face with eyes that shone at him lovingly. He and the woman were in a car and the woman drove; he simply watched her, marveling at her beauty. She sang: > > - You have to put your slippers on > To walk toward the dawn.\* I won’t mention Herman W. Mudgett, because that would be _craaaaazy_. 😃 But I can’t resist quoting this, (even though it _is_ crazy) because I’m full of beer and it’s wicked cool. Skip it if you’re not a quasi-schizophrenic Dickhead and for some strange reason your eyes haven’t glazed over yet: > [@](#): > > “A strange idea,” Herb Asher said. “I wonder what the authorities would think if their intelligence-gathering circuitry picked up the thoughts of God.” > “Well,” Elias said, “they wouldn’t know what it was. I know the authorities of Earth; I have dealt with them for four thousand years, in situation after situation. Country after country. War after war. I was with Graf Egemont in the Dutch wars of indepen- dence, the Thirty Years War; I was present the day he was executed. I knew Beethoven… but perhaps ‘knew’ is not the word.” > “You were Beethoven,” Herb Asher said. > “Part of my spirit returned to Earth and to him,” Elias said. > Vulgar and fiery. Herb thought. Passionately dedicated to the cause of human freedom. Walking hand-in-hand with his friend Goethe, the two men stirring the new life of the German Enlightenment. “Who else were you?” he said. > “Many people in history.” > “Tom Paine?” > “We engineered the American Revolution,” Elias said. “A group of us. We were the Friends of God at one time, and the Brothers of the Rosy Cross in 1615 . . . I was Jakob Boehme, but you wouldn’t know of him. My spirit doesn’t dwell alone in a man; it is not incarnation. It is part of my spirit returning to Earth to bond with a human whom God has selected. There are always such humans and I am there. Martin Buber was one such man, God rest his noble soul. That dear and gentle man. The Arabs, too, placed flowers on his grave. Even the Arabs loved him.” Elias fell silent. "Some of the men I sent myself to were better men than I was. But I have the power to return. God granted it to me to-well, it was for Israel’s sake. A hint of immortality for the dearest people of all. You know, Herb, God offered the Torah, it is said, to every people in the world, back in ancient times, before he offered it to the Jews, and every nation rejected it for one reason or another. The Torah said, ‘Thou shalt not kill’ and many could not live by that; they wanted religion to be separate from morality-they didn’t want religion to hobble their desires. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linda-rondstat-thrown-out-of-casino-for-supporting-michael-moore/255915/174 "2004-07-21T08:00:30Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Dude, pull your head out of the sand; there hasn’t been a “liberal bias in the media” for 25 years, and no one has used that phrase seriously since Clinton’s presidency. Oh, yes they have. And to the degree it’s lessened I give credit to Fox. The tremendous popularity and ratings Fox has acheived has apparently opened the eyes of the other networks to the fact that whether they can recognize liberal bias in themselves or not, the American public certainly does, and they resent it and flock to a network such as Fox as a result. Have you read Bernard Goldberg’s book? He does an excellent job of pointing out how liberal bias manifests itself and the reasons for it, including the fact that those engaging in it are unaware of it themselves. In the eyes of the media, there are normal, good-hearted civilized people such as themselves, and then there are right-wing crackpots! I forget the exact figures but IIRC he said that a poll of some 80 or so journalists revealed that 78 of them voted Democrat in the previous election. And their broadcasts reflect this bias. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linda-rondstat-thrown-out-of-casino-for-supporting-michael-moore/255915/175 "2004-07-21T10:21:29Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > Yep. And ya know something else even more scary? There are millions and millions and millions just like me. And we are puffed! 😃 Oh, don’t think for a second I’m confident. There are too many stupid and/or ignorant and/or blind people in the USA, and there are too many ways to fix elections, to assume that Kerry has a chance in hell. But, if Bush wins, at least more people will be aware of, attuned to what these bastards are doing. If there’s any shenaigans with voting fixing in Florida or elsewhere, I predict riots. Oh, and don’t think those fuckers, win or not, will “get away” with everything they do. They are now, but historians and future generations will know. They’ll know and be rightly appalled. > [@Starving Artist](#): > > And you are _how_ old? I’m a grandmother who’s sick of the bullshit. My granddaughter is far LESS safe now than she was before 9/11, and assholes like you who don’t care about that are beyond contempt. So spare me your “kinder, gentler” conservatism. You support killing and crime and abuse and terror, so fuck you. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linda-rondstat-thrown-out-of-casino-for-supporting-michael-moore/255915/176 "2004-07-21T18:41:39Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > You support killing and crime and abuse and terror… No, I support keeping this country and the innocent people who live in it safe from dying by the thousands ala 9/11. I support keeping Israel safe from suicide bombers who have been encouraged to kill innocent Israelis by Iraqi payments to insure their families’ solvency. I support putting an end to the murder of innocent Iraqis themselves, as over a million of them have been killed by Hussein and his henchmen. (Imagine that for every American killed in Iraq a thousand Iraqis have died, and more would have in the future.) I also support a democracy in the middle east. Hopefully it will inspire, over time and by its own example, more of the same. Democratic societies in the middle east would bode well for much greater peace and much less killing in a part of the world where it’s been going on for millenia. We can agree to disagree on my views in this regard, but to say I support killing and crime and abuse and terror is just plain silly. > [@Equipoise](#): > > …so fuck you. Very charming, granny. Class like yours is hard to hide, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linda-rondstat-thrown-out-of-casino-for-supporting-michael-moore/255915/177 "2004-07-21T20:35:44Z")
> [@Jodi](#): > > VOYAGER – > > Gee, VOYAGER, I don’t believe I said she was the first person to mix music with politics. I said “STFU and sing.” _And_ I’m pretty sure I said I don’t like it when Republicans/conservatives do it, either. Congratulations on reading an amazing amount into my post, though. Don’t let the actual words stand in your way. Guess you missed the point. Singing doesn’t mean no politics, as a long tradition shows. Not that this is a new invention, Charley and the MTA was a political song. But if you think no one should sing anything but love songs, I stand corrected. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linda-rondstat-thrown-out-of-casino-for-supporting-michael-moore/255915/178 "2004-07-21T21:03:24Z")
Once again, the Tighty Righties reveal the brutal core of their facistic philosophy, with a crudely savage attack on a granny lady. I would like to say I’m surprised, but sadly, I am all too familiar with the callous inhumanity of the Right. (Some people say that granny ladies are being sedated and kidnapped, and delivered to rendering plants employing illegal Tasmanian immigrants, and converted to Grannoil[sup]tm[/sup] for sale by Haliburton to Saudi royals to lubricate their skateboards. So far, they’ve only tapped the homeless grannies. Some people say that…) Its quite simple: you want jackboot prints on your granny’s ass, vote Bush. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linda-rondstat-thrown-out-of-casino-for-supporting-michael-moore/255915/179 "2004-07-21T21:32:19Z")
Oh, for Fuck’s sake. This whole tempest in a teapot is simply pathetic. You all ought to be ashamed of yourselves. The casino is blowing it out of proportion just to get some publicity, Rondstat is blowing it out of proportion to get some publicity, and the blogosphere is blowing it out of proportion because that’s what the blogosphere does. The whole controversy is waaaaaay too meta here, people. “I support X” “I criticize your support of X” “I criticize your critique of my support of X” “I criticize your critique of my critique of your support of X” “Your critique of my critique of your critique of my support of X amounts to censorship” “Your comparison of my critique of your critique of my critique of your support of X to censorship amounts to censorship” “When you said my comparison of your critique of my critique of your critique of my support of X amounts to censorship amounts to censorship, that amounted to censorship” “Oh, yeah? Well same to you but more of it” “But people on your side have said indefensible things” “Oh, yeah? But people on YOUR side have said indefensible things” “Yes, but the people on my side who said indefensible things were speaking from good motives, the people on your side who said indefensible things were speaking from bad motives” “But that’s not true, the people on my side who said indefensible things were speaking from good motives, the people on your side who said indefensible things were speaking from bad motives” “That statement is not true” “Is too” “People who say ‘Is too’” are frequently unAmerican" “Did you call me unAmerican?” “No, but funny how you thought my words implied you were unAmerican” “Calling people unAmerican is unAmerican” “Calling people who call people unAmerican unAmerican is unAmerican” “Oh yeah? Well calling people who call people who call people unAmerican unAmerican unAmerican is unAmerican” “Really? Well, calling people who call people who call people who call people unAmerican unAmerican unAmerican is unAmerican” “But calling people who call people who call people who call people who call people unAmerican unAmerican unAmerican unAmerican is unAmerican” “You might think that, but the reality is that calling people who call people who call people…uh…unAmeri…uh…, where was I again?..” “OK, next time you stand on this side, and I’ll stand on that side” “Only if the time after next time I get to stand on that side and you stand on this side” “Only if the time after the time after next time you stand on this side and I get to stand on this side” “Deal” ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linda-rondstat-thrown-out-of-casino-for-supporting-michael-moore/255915/180 "2004-07-21T21:37:19Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > “But calling people who call people who call people who call people who call people unAmerican unAmerican unAmerican unAmerican is unAmerican” > “You might think that, but the reality is that calling people who call people who call people…uh…unAmeri…uh…, where was I again?..” > “OK, next time you stand on this side, and I’ll stand on that side” > “Only if the time after next time I get to stand on that side and you stand on this side” > “Only if the time after the time after next time you stand on this side and I get to stand on this side” > “Deal” Lemur, that was a thing of beauty. Thank you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linda-rondstat-thrown-out-of-casino-for-supporting-michael-moore/255915.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linda-rondstat-thrown-out-of-casino-for-supporting-michael-moore/255915.md?page=10)