# Lindsay Graham vows to uphold the filibuster. Can Republican senators get two more votes for this **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 16, 2016, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lindsay-graham-vows-to-uphold-the-filibuster-can-republican-senators-get-two-more-votes-for-this/772165 "2016-11-16T15:00:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lindsay-graham-vows-to-uphold-the-filibuster-can-republican-senators-get-two-more-votes-for-this/772165/1 "2016-11-16T15:00:40Z")
The Senate will be 52-48 with gop control. Assuming all 48 Democrats vote to uphold the filibuster along with Graham that means two more Republicans are needed to avoid changing the rules by a majority vote. I’m assuming that the filibuster will stand. For one, it lets the Republican blame the Democrats when Trump fails to uphold his promises (golly we Republicans wanted to do xyz, but the Democrats filibustered. The Democrats pulled that same line against Republicans for the last eight years to placate progressives). For another I’m sure some of them are aware that someone like Trump needs checks on his power. There were something like 16 gop senators who didn’t support Trump in the election. I’m sure a few realize Trump needs checks and balances. So who are two more gop senators who will likely uphold the filibuster? ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lindsay-graham-vows-to-uphold-the-filibuster-can-republican-senators-get-two-more-votes-for-this/772165/2 "2016-11-16T15:39:28Z")
These 16 GOP senators can simply vote against any Trump legislation they don’t like–while getting rid of the filibuster allows the Senate to pass Trump legislation these 16 GOP Senators do like. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lindsay-graham-vows-to-uphold-the-filibuster-can-republican-senators-get-two-more-votes-for-this/772165/3 "2016-11-16T16:13:19Z")
The democrats only have themselves to blame … you can’t have it both ways. ABC news link from November 21, 2013 > **[Senate Goes 'Nuclear,' Changes Nominee Filibuster Rules](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/senate-nuclear-filibuster-rules/story?id=20964700)** > > Majority Leader Harry Reid threatens to go 'nuclear' if GOP continues to block Obama nominations. > [@](#): > > When senators arrived in the Capitol today, it took 60 votes to confirm presidential nominees. When they left, it only took 51 after changing Senate rules for the first time in decades. > > The Senate voted 52 to 48 to change the rules to allow the president’s judicial and executive nominees to be confirmed with only 51 votes. Supreme Court nominees are exempt from the change and still subject to the 60-vote threshold. > > The Senate vote effectively eliminates the use of filibusters against presidential nominees, with Democrats advancing the most significant change in Senate rules in more than a generation to break a logjam of President Obama’s blocked nominees. > **[Senator Boxer Introduces Bill to Eliminate Electoral College](https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/senator-boxer-to-introduce-bill-to-eliminate-electoral-college/146552/)** > > U.S. Senator Barbara Boxer (D-CA) filed legislation Tuesday that would eliminate the Electoral College, so that presidential elections would be decided by the popular vote. Boxer introduced the bill when the Senate came into session Tuesday, NBC News... > [@](#): > > Senator Boxer Introduces Bill to Eliminate Electoral College “This is the only office in the land where you can get more votes and still lose the presidency,” Boxer … ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lindsay-graham-vows-to-uphold-the-filibuster-can-republican-senators-get-two-more-votes-for-this/772165/4 "2016-11-16T16:28:35Z")
Democrats changed the filibuster rules because of judicial appointments being blocked for years. That is not the same as total abolition of the filibuster to make it easier to destroy medicare and social security. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lindsay-graham-vows-to-uphold-the-filibuster-can-republican-senators-get-two-more-votes-for-this/772165/5 "2016-11-16T17:08:56Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Democrats changed the filibuster rules because of judicial appointments being blocked for years. > > That is not the same as total abolition of the filibuster to make it easier to destroy medicare and social security. So the filibuster should be retained to keep legislative programs, but stay gone for judicial and executive nominees? Is that your argument? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lindsay-graham-vows-to-uphold-the-filibuster-can-republican-senators-get-two-more-votes-for-this/772165/6 "2016-11-16T17:15:17Z")
The filibuster rules should change, the electoral college and two term limit for presidents should also be eliminated, but it’s a dumb idea to do it as a reaction to some recent event. Let them debate and decide what to do and implement any changes at some point in the future. And even at that they’ll probably screw things up. ---
**Author:** ![Smitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Smitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smitty)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lindsay-graham-vows-to-uphold-the-filibuster-can-republican-senators-get-two-more-votes-for-this/772165/7 "2016-11-16T17:33:15Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Democrats changed the filibuster rules because of judicial appointments being blocked for years. > > That is not the same as total abolition of the filibuster to make it easier to destroy medicare and social security. If memory serves, you wanted Harry Reid to abolish the filibuster on day one in 2009. Sauce for the goose… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lindsay-graham-vows-to-uphold-the-filibuster-can-republican-senators-get-two-more-votes-for-this/772165/8 "2016-11-16T17:42:21Z")
Hey, the people have spoken! Sorta. Kinda. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lindsay-graham-vows-to-uphold-the-filibuster-can-republican-senators-get-two-more-votes-for-this/772165/9 "2016-11-16T17:47:17Z")
Democracy works best when the majority party has both the memory of having been in the minority and the certain knowledge that they will be again before too many more turns of the wheel. Graham has been around long enough to know this. But on the other hand, there was that H.L. Menken quote: “Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.” ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lindsay-graham-vows-to-uphold-the-filibuster-can-republican-senators-get-two-more-votes-for-this/772165/10 "2016-11-16T18:46:57Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > The Senate will be 52-48 with gop control. Assuming all 48 Democrats vote to uphold the filibuster … There are 10-12 Democratic Senators from red or purple states up for reelection in 2018. Don’t assume. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lindsay-graham-vows-to-uphold-the-filibuster-can-republican-senators-get-two-more-votes-for-this/772165/11 "2016-11-16T19:37:36Z")
I would prefer an up or down vote on nominees of the President. For legislation I’m not so sure - I’d generally prefer gridlock so filibusters help that happen. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lindsay-graham-vows-to-uphold-the-filibuster-can-republican-senators-get-two-more-votes-for-this/772165/12 "2016-11-16T19:51:24Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I would prefer an up or down vote on nominees of the President. For lifetime appointees, like SCJ, I’d like the minority to be able to filibuster. That’s not partisanship talking; I’d prefer that even if Democratic president/Senate. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lindsay-graham-vows-to-uphold-the-filibuster-can-republican-senators-get-two-more-votes-for-this/772165/13 "2016-11-16T20:23:29Z")
I would humbly suggest that if a nominee for SCOTUS can’t get a near unanimous vote you’re nominating the wrong person. ---
**Author:** ![skdo23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@skdo23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skdo23)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lindsay-graham-vows-to-uphold-the-filibuster-can-republican-senators-get-two-more-votes-for-this/772165/14 "2016-11-16T20:43:19Z")
> [@furt](#): > > There are 10-12 Democratic Senators from red or purple states up for reelection in 2018. Don’t assume. This. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lindsay-graham-vows-to-uphold-the-filibuster-can-republican-senators-get-two-more-votes-for-this/772165/15 "2016-11-16T21:21:59Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > I would humbly suggest that if a nominee for SCOTUS can’t get a near unanimous vote you’re nominating the wrong person. Even in our current atmosphere of genial bipartisan cooperation I think that might be difficult. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lindsay-graham-vows-to-uphold-the-filibuster-can-republican-senators-get-two-more-votes-for-this/772165/16 "2016-11-16T21:32:01Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So the filibuster should be retained to keep legislative programs, but stay gone for judicial and executive nominees? Is that your argument? 40 votes in the senate should be able to eliminate the federal judiciary through attrition? is that your argument? ---
**Author:** ![Kyrie\_Eleison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kyrie_eleison/32/7682_2.png) [@Kyrie\_Eleison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyrie_Eleison)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lindsay-graham-vows-to-uphold-the-filibuster-can-republican-senators-get-two-more-votes-for-this/772165/17 "2016-11-17T00:11:08Z")
> [@furt](#): > > There are 10-12 Democratic Senators from red or purple states up for reelection in 2018. Don’t assume. Do you think any of those 10-12 Democrats are going to vote to throw away the ongoing bargaining power that the filibuster offers them? How does that help them win re-election? What’s the campaign slogan, “Vote for me, I voted that one time to let the Republicans decide everything like I thought you wanted?” They can vote to throw out the filibuster now, and be toothless for at least two years, or keep it, and bargain to break filibusters in the future in return for political favor. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lindsay-graham-vows-to-uphold-the-filibuster-can-republican-senators-get-two-more-votes-for-this/772165/18 "2016-11-17T00:18:00Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > 40 votes in the senate should be able to eliminate the federal judiciary through attrition? is that your argument? No. I am completely agnostic on the matter. My only argument is that the rules need to stay the same no matter who is in power. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lindsay-graham-vows-to-uphold-the-filibuster-can-republican-senators-get-two-more-votes-for-this/772165/19 "2016-11-17T00:19:23Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So the filibuster should be retained to keep legislative programs, but stay gone for judicial and executive nominees? Is that your argument? I must have missed where **Wesley** made any statement in favor of anything. Could you helpfully bold that part of his post that you quoted? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lindsay-graham-vows-to-uphold-the-filibuster-can-republican-senators-get-two-more-votes-for-this/772165/20 "2016-11-17T00:19:26Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > For lifetime appointees, like SCJ, I’d like the minority to be able to filibuster. That’s not partisanship talking; I’d prefer that even if Democratic president/Senate. Reid’s 2013 vote allowed lifetime appointments to be confirmed with only a majority. All federal judges are lifetime appointments. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lindsay-graham-vows-to-uphold-the-filibuster-can-republican-senators-get-two-more-votes-for-this/772165.md?page=2)