# Linguistic Puzzle: "these cups need washed" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 17, 2006, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linguistic-puzzle-these-cups-need-washed/352957 "2006-04-17T06:32:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linguistic-puzzle-these-cups-need-washed/352957/21 "2006-04-17T18:09:13Z")
> [@sleeepy2](#): > > When I read the thread title, I immediately thought “Pittsburgh”. It is very Pennsylvania. Surprisingly, on the website of Adelphia Communications, one of the drop-down topics in the form to contact the company is “Cable Line Needs Buried” (!). ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linguistic-puzzle-these-cups-need-washed/352957/22 "2006-04-17T18:18:42Z")
Businesses are no stranger to dialectal local color. There’s a store, headquartered in the South, evidently, whose slogan is “Where we treat ya’ like kin!” ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linguistic-puzzle-these-cups-need-washed/352957/23 "2006-04-17T18:37:30Z")
The opening to Hamlet’s soliloquy, as played in Pittsburgh - “Or not …”. I grew up in Western PA, and still catch myself doing this sometimes. We’ve been over it a few times before, too. People sometimes add another quirk to it - the replacement of “needs” by “wants”, as in “Your car wants washed.” ---
**Author:** ![E.Thorp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@E.Thorp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E.Thorp)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linguistic-puzzle-these-cups-need-washed/352957/24 "2006-04-17T18:49:55Z")
I grew up in southern Ohio and spent most of my 20s in central Pennsylvania. This little dialect feature – hearing others use it, or using it myself – always makes me feel at home. ---
**Author:** ![JustAnotherGeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/58f4c7/32.png) [@JustAnotherGeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustAnotherGeek)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linguistic-puzzle-these-cups-need-washed/352957/25 "2006-04-17T18:50:56Z")
Heh, I went to school in Pittsburgh and sometimes, you can still hear me leave out “to be” once in a while. After school, I spent sometime working as a medic, so I actually intentionally picked up the accent. I can only speak with “Pittsburghese” when I am in Pa, though. I leave out “to be” a lot more often when I am around my brother who went to Penn State (central Pa, for those not familiar). His wife is from south westish Pa and has no other aspect of “Pittsburghese” than the omission of “to be.” I know that it drives my brother nutz, so, of course, I make sure I have said same idiosyncratic speech pattern. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linguistic-puzzle-these-cups-need-washed/352957/26 "2006-04-17T18:56:17Z")
I hear it from time to time in the far eastern exurbs of Cleveland. When I hear someone here in Cleveland say it, and they’re not from Pennsylvania, they’re usually from Ashtabula County or eastern Lake County. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linguistic-puzzle-these-cups-need-washed/352957/27 "2006-04-17T23:29:01Z")
Yes, it must be a Pittsburgh thing!! I thought to include that in my OP, since the one who says it the _most_ at my office is my coworker from Pittsburgh. I’m not sure if the other people who say it are from that region, or more local (I’m near Harrisburg). I don’t think it’s a Scottish thing, at least not in my experience – I lived in Scotland for part of last year, and I don’t ever remember hearing it there. Granted, I was in Edinburgh, so it might well be a Glaswegian thing (as postulated above). ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linguistic-puzzle-these-cups-need-washed/352957/28 "2006-04-17T23:38:40Z")
> [@jali](#): > > I’ve heard it and it really annoys me to. > > When I lived in Virginia shopping for food was known as “making groceries”. I found myself saying it too after a couple of years. !!! I was born and grew up in N. Va., and never heard that phrase until we moved to New Orleans. It is a proud part of “traditional” New Orleans. Spoken proudly be every y’at that stakes a claim to be a New Orleanian. But Virginia? Next you will be commenting that Tabasco sauce is made in New Jersey. 🙂 Seriously, I don’t doubt you, but am very surprised that the phrase “Making Groceries” has become common in Va. What part of Va. are you referring? ---
**Author:** ![WishIHadACoolName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a587f6/32.png) [@WishIHadACoolName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WishIHadACoolName)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linguistic-puzzle-these-cups-need-washed/352957/29 "2006-04-18T00:41:36Z")
I’m also not too far from Harrisburg (grew up here), and I can honestly say that I don’t hear it that often. When I do, it’s usually coming from someone who didn’t grow up here in the coal region (don’t get me started on weird speech here!!!), or from someone who spent their college years outside the immediate area. I think it’s definitely a more “city” thing than a small town thing. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linguistic-puzzle-these-cups-need-washed/352957/30 "2006-04-18T02:08:24Z")
> [@E. Thorp](#): > > I grew up in southern Ohio and spent most of my 20s in central Pennsylvania. This little dialect feature – hearing others use it, or using it myself – always makes me feel at home. Oh, \*\*\*southern \*\*\*Ohio (aka Ahia). That explains why I’ve never heard it. But I guarantee it’ll creep up this way before long. ---
**Author:** ![Large\_Marge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/50afbb/32.png) [@Large\_Marge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Large_Marge)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linguistic-puzzle-these-cups-need-washed/352957/31 "2006-04-18T03:00:39Z")
> [@rbroome](#): > > !!! > I was born and grew up in N. Va., and never heard that phrase until we moved to New Orleans. It is a proud part of “traditional” New Orleans. Spoken proudly be every y’at that stakes a claim to be a New Orleanian. \ My grandmother was from Lake Charles, Louisiana, and she also dropped the “to be” as in, “Those dishes need washed.” ---
**Author:** ![DustyButt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc348/32.png) [@DustyButt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DustyButt)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linguistic-puzzle-these-cups-need-washed/352957/32 "2006-04-18T03:11:23Z")
“All your base are belong to us”… comes to mind. ---
**Author:** ![JustAnotherGeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/58f4c7/32.png) [@JustAnotherGeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustAnotherGeek)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linguistic-puzzle-these-cups-need-washed/352957/33 "2006-04-18T15:58:43Z")
> [@DustyButt](#): > > “All your base are belong to us”… comes to mind. No no nonono! “All your base are need worsched” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![LateComer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b5ac83/32.png) [@LateComer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LateComer)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linguistic-puzzle-these-cups-need-washed/352957/34 "2006-04-18T16:22:43Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > "Actually, that should be, “these cups need worshed.” Actually, that should be: “these cups need worshed n’at” Sounds natural to me at least spoken. The to be in those cases are extraneous. “those cups need washed” gives all the information you need. I think a lot of Pittsburghese is geared toward being able to speak faster and get more information in more quickly. And just because it’s not a proper construct on paper doesn’t mean it’s not proper orally. Anyway, if that drives you nuts, how about this: “I’m going to go down to Joe’s house tonight.” becomes “I’m going down Joe’s.” in Pittsburghese and “I’m going down to the store.” becomes “I’m going down the store.” ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linguistic-puzzle-these-cups-need-washed/352957/35 "2006-04-18T16:50:31Z")
Up in the NW corner of the state we did drop the “to be”, but we did not add the “r” to “wash” and turn it into to “worsh”. That was something I associated with the coal country in the southern part of the state. I had a high school teacher that did that, and he was from somewhere down there. Most aspects of “Burghese” didn’t make it out into the sticks, as someone else has noted, but that dropping of the “to be” did. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linguistic-puzzle-these-cups-need-washed/352957/36 "2006-04-18T16:55:46Z")
> [@LateComer](#): > > Actually, that should be: “these cups need worshed n’at” Suburban Buffalo Kielbonics … hoo boy. “Dose der cups der need to be washed der.” “Dese here papers der need to be filed der, dontcha’ know.” “Dat der contract der need to be signed der, gutdemmet.” As far as going down to the store goes, if Stan is going to Rite Aid, he says … “I’m gohn down der to da’ Rite-Aid’s der.” ---
**Author:** ![kellner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c2a13f/32.png) [@kellner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kellner)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linguistic-puzzle-these-cups-need-washed/352957/37 "2006-04-18T21:06:28Z")
> [@Rodgers01](#): > > (I have heard that there are communities in the mid-West that still use a slightly stilted variety of English that incorporates some aspects of German grammar.) The “… need washed” construction doesn’t sound German in any recognizable way, although it’s hard to tell for sure because there are some very strange constructions in regional dialects. > [@jali](#): > > When I lived in Virginia shopping for food was known as “making groceries”. I found myself saying it too after a couple of years. That OTOH could easily be influenced by German. “making groceries” would even be a reasonable word-for-word translation of “Einkäufe machen”. ---
**Author:** ![rocksolid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@rocksolid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocksolid)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linguistic-puzzle-these-cups-need-washed/352957/38 "2006-04-18T23:30:23Z")
As a Scotsman myself i can confirm that the ‘error’ being discussed here is commonplace in my homeland. In fact, despite priding myself on my ‘proper’ English it had never ever occured to me that it was wrong in any way! I’m from Edinburgh, and if ever there was a place in Scotland likely to use correct grammer, it is here! I’m pretty sure it’s common throughout Scotland. Interested to know what references you cite for correct grammer and indeed if anyone can confirm this is incorrect language. It’s probably just due to the fact that i’m so used to it but it sounds perfectly correct to me. ---
**Author:** ![rocksolid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@rocksolid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocksolid)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linguistic-puzzle-these-cups-need-washed/352957/39 "2006-04-18T23:37:57Z")
> [@LateComer](#): > > Anyway, if that drives you nuts, how about this: > > “I’m going to go down to Joe’s house tonight.” becomes > “I’m going down Joe’s.” in Pittsburghese and > “I’m going down to the store.” becomes > “I’m going down the store.” More phrases commonplace in Scotland, although i know these to be incorrect and do not use this type of sentence construction myself. I’d commonly speak as per the OP though. Wonder why the difference? ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linguistic-puzzle-these-cups-need-washed/352957/40 "2006-04-18T23:46:04Z")
> [@rocksolid](#): > > As a Scotsman myself i can confirm that the ‘error’ being discussed here is commonplace in my homeland. > > In fact, despite priding myself on my ‘proper’ English it had never ever occured to me that it was wrong in any way! > > I’m from Edinburgh, and if ever there was a place in Scotland likely to use correct grammer, it is here! I’m pretty sure it’s common throughout Scotland. > > Interested to know what references you cite for correct grammer and indeed if anyone can confirm this is incorrect language. It’s probably just due to the fact that i’m so used to it but it sounds perfectly correct to me. Interesting. Which suggests that it is indeed linked to the Scottish immigrants who settled Appalachia. Linking it to the Amish sounds wrong to me. While some Amish moved into my part of the state at one time, they mainly lived down in Lancaster County, and my part of the state had little ongoing contact with them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linguistic-puzzle-these-cups-need-washed/352957.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linguistic-puzzle-these-cups-need-washed/352957.md?page=3)