# Linguists: why is "choir" pronounced "quire"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 8, 2005, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linguists-why-is-choir-pronounced-quire/334689 "2005-12-08T15:59:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![fishbicycle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aeb1de/32.png) [@fishbicycle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fishbicycle)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linguists-why-is-choir-pronounced-quire/334689/1 "2005-12-08T15:59:26Z")
…when we have “chorus”, “choral” and “chorale” in the same word family? How did the “cho” become “qui” in “choir”? It seems wrong, but there must be a good reason. Anyone know what it is? ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linguists-why-is-choir-pronounced-quire/334689/2 "2005-12-08T16:07:21Z")
> [@fishbicycle](#): > > …when we have “chorus”, “choral” and “chorale” in the same word family? How did the “cho” become “qui” in “choir”? It seems wrong, but there must be a good reason. Anyone know what it is? Oddly enough, the word used to be spelled [“quire”](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Choir): [Middle English _quer, quire_, from Old French _cuer_, from Medieval Latin _chorus_, from Latin …] The question now becomes "why does the word once spelled ‘quire’ come to be spelled ‘choir’ " ? There was at one time a movement towards the respelling of perfectly good English words to reflect an assumed etymological relationship with Latin. Two common example would be _debt_ and _island_, which had the silent letters tacked on well after their pronunciations in English had been established. The respelling of “quire” as"choir" is more of the same. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linguists-why-is-choir-pronounced-quire/334689/3 "2005-12-08T16:10:21Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > There was at one time a movement towards the respelling of perfectly good English words to reflect an assumed etymological relationship with Latin. I should make clear that “choir” does indeed have an etymological relationship with Latin _chorus_. However, the French form cited above was an intermediary, and the word “quire” had been around a good while as a fully assimilated English word before it ecame fashionable for it to be spelled “choir”. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linguists-why-is-choir-pronounced-quire/334689/4 "2005-12-08T16:27:15Z")
**bordelond** : > [@](#): > > Oddly enough, the word used to be spelled “quire”: And when it _was_, it was pronounced “queer”, just to add to the confusion. - O, the rising of the sun, The running of the deer The playing of the merry organ, Sweet singing in the quire\* ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linguists-why-is-choir-pronounced-quire/334689/5 "2005-12-08T17:18:20Z")
In that case, I have to wonder if the change in pronunciation proceeded the change in spelling, or vice versa. Or whether they happened simultaneously. ---
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linguists-why-is-choir-pronounced-quire/334689/6 "2005-12-08T17:43:30Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > And when it _was_, it was pronounced “queer”, just to add to the confusion. Ah, so Ronnie Barker was just being archaic, not erroneous, in his Christmas appeal for funds for the Loyal Society for the Prevention of Pismonouncriation. > [@Ronnie Barker](#): > > Many of our grumblers lose out on these skimple pastimes, however. A very close fringe of mine, for instance, once went carol-slinging with the local church queer. R.I.P., Ronnie. ---
**Author:** ![spingears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@spingears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spingears)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linguists-why-is-choir-pronounced-quire/334689/7 "2005-12-08T20:44:51Z")
> [@fishbicycle](#): > > …when we have “chorus”, “choral” and “chorale” in the same word family? How did the “cho” become “qui” in “choir”? It seems wrong, but there must be a good reason. Anyone know what it is? WAG So the quire can sing in chorus? Chorus singing in quire sounds odd/strange! ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linguists-why-is-choir-pronounced-quire/334689/8 "2005-12-08T23:51:08Z")
My uncle Hugo said he went to choir practice twice a week for three months, but it didn’t do a thing for his bad back. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linguists-why-is-choir-pronounced-quire/334689/9 "2005-12-09T00:07:14Z")
Who else here has actually had reason to use the modern word ‘quire’ in writing? ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linguists-why-is-choir-pronounced-quire/334689/10 "2005-12-09T00:49:18Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > Who else here has actually had reason to use the modern word ‘quire’ in writing? Only when using the BCP inspired phrase “in quires and places where they sing” in the odd choral newsletter. I was also a member of a mediaeval group for a while that used that spelling: the Quire of the Holy Rood. ---
**Author:** ![groman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/73ab20/32.png) [@groman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groman)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linguists-why-is-choir-pronounced-quire/334689/11 "2005-12-09T07:29:54Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > Who else here has actually had reason to use the modern word ‘quire’ in writing? Like a writing quire? ---
**Author:** ![spingears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@spingears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spingears)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linguists-why-is-choir-pronounced-quire/334689/12 "2005-12-09T14:36:39Z")
> [@groman](#): > > Like a writing quire? [\*\* A Quire is Just a Quire \*\*](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=quire) ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2005, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/linguists-why-is-choir-pronounced-quire/334689/13 "2005-12-09T16:42:13Z")
I’d never heard the quire pronunciation before, and I’ve always thought of myself as a cunning linguist.