# Lissener's obnoxious behavior in GQ **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 4, 2006, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lisseners-obnoxious-behavior-in-gq/359396 "2006-06-04T18:32:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2006, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lisseners-obnoxious-behavior-in-gq/359396/181 "2006-06-06T19:03:41Z")
[QUOTE=Excalibre] The phrase “British languages” is probably used to refer to languages spoken on Great Britain - English, Welsh, Scots, and Scottish Gaelic. [/QUOTE] Those poor, poor Cornish never get any recognition. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2006, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lisseners-obnoxious-behavior-in-gq/359396/182 "2006-06-06T19:04:11Z")
[QUOTE=Mighty\_Girl] … \*In the meantime, can someone tell me how to translate “empalagar/empalagoso” into English? That is our holy grail. [/QUOTE] I’m thinking “cloying”. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2006, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lisseners-obnoxious-behavior-in-gq/359396/183 "2006-06-06T19:07:03Z")
[QUOTE=lissener] Sigh. I have been the one saying all along that there is debate on the question: that there is obviously no absolute consensus. I have acknowledged before that there are examples out there of “Spanish” in the translation. I have only said, therefore, that no one has the right to call me “wrong” for pointing out the other widely accepted translation. And further, that the logic, and sources that I have found, lead me, personally, to support the “Castilian” translation. I have said over and over again that I do not claim to be the final arbiter on the one right answer; I have only claimed my right not be called “wrong” and accused of dishonesty. I really am gonna try to make this my last word on the subject; this thread has devolved into nothing more than a new round of people who have apparently not read the thread in its entirety, or not read the thread, or who just plain aren’t listening. So I’m just not really interested in repeating it all again, over and over. Honestly, I have never before on these boards witnessed anything like this. Such an innocuous bit of arcana, sculpted into this insane maelstrom of hatred–it just leaves me utterly, utterly bewildered. That the simple and trivial \*fact \*that the most common, the _standard_, translation of the Spanish Constitution labels the official language as “Castilian”–that this simple _fact_–could become the basis for such an episode of, of _violence_, I don’t imagine I will ever understand. [/QUOTE] “Crucifixion? First Door On The Left. One Cross Each“ ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2006, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lisseners-obnoxious-behavior-in-gq/359396/184 "2006-06-06T19:13:06Z")
[QUOTE=MrDibble] Those poor, poor Cornish never get any recognition. 😉 [/QUOTE] Fuck the Cornish! Actually, I wasn’t aware that the language had been revived until now; I wonder how different it is from the traditional language. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2006, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lisseners-obnoxious-behavior-in-gq/359396/185 "2006-06-06T19:16:38Z")
I might point out something **Nava** said (and forgive my not linking or quoting directly). Her username here is derived from the province and former kingdom in which she lives, Navarre (yes, as in “Paris is worth a Mass” – that Navarre). The **earliest record** of a language clearly ancestral to the present-day tongue spoken in Toledo, Bogota, Buenos Aires, Ciudad de Mexico, etc., is an official document from her country – not the neighboring (and at the time Moor-dominated) County later to become the Kingdom of Castile. _Castellano_, the alternate name for Spanish, derives from the Madrid-Toledo dialect’s status as _“el Español del Rey”_ – but it is customarily used (1) in claims that someone’s dialect is equivalent to “the King’s English” (My high school Spanish teacher, Sr. Vargas, was a native of Costa Rica, and claimed that Costa Ricans spoke _Castellano puro_ – a claim we politely didn’t contradict even though his accent was evident to even high school juniors as patently not “Castilian”); (2) to distinguish between the official and dominant language of Spain and the other regional vernaculars, some dialectal and some patently quite different languages; and (3) to reference the historical antecedent – _Castellano_ won out over Aragonese, Navarrese, and other dialects of Old Spanish as the standard form. While “Castilian” is the literal translation of _Castellano_ into English, it will be used (other than by **lissener** ) only in highly technical usages or in slavishly literal translations. If “the other Spanish languages” include Basque in anything but a political sense, I believe we should start recognizing that accomplished Castilian-speaking geologists believe that “this rock calls itself granite” – as that is what they will write. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2006, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lisseners-obnoxious-behavior-in-gq/359396/186 "2006-06-06T19:28:48Z")
[QUOTE=Polycarp] If “the other Spanish languages” include Basque in anything but a political sense, I believe we should start recognizing that accomplished Castilian-speaking geologists believe that “this rock calls itself granite” – as that is what they will write. [/QUOTE] Cute, but it should be stated that while this is commonly called the “reflexive” in Spanish instruction (at least in English; I’m not sure if the term is used in instructing native Spanish speakers), the great majority of its uses are _not_ reflexive. Most of the time, these _se_ constructions are impersonal or passive; in this case, _se_ marks the passive voice, and there’s nothing “reflexive” involved - even a perfectly literal translation should not use the reflexive pronoun _itself_ because that’s only one of the meanings of _se_ and not the primary one, based on how much each construction is used. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2006, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lisseners-obnoxious-behavior-in-gq/359396/187 "2006-06-06T19:33:39Z")
lissener, I have an honest question; Do you speak Spanish? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2006, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lisseners-obnoxious-behavior-in-gq/359396/188 "2006-06-06T19:40:12Z")
[QUOTE=Excalibre] Fuck the Cornish! [/QUOTE] “OK, other than pasties and hens, what have the Cornish ever done for us?” [QUOTE=Excalibre] Actually, I wasn’t aware that the language had been revived until now; I wonder how different it is from the traditional language. [/QUOTE] I’m not sure - I read a recent issue of National Geographic on modern-day Celts, which got me going a-wiking. The webpage is pretty[comprehensive](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornish_language) an overview. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2006, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lisseners-obnoxious-behavior-in-gq/359396/189 "2006-06-06T19:40:57Z")
[QUOTE=Excalibre] Cute, but it should be stated that while this is commonly called the “reflexive” in Spanish instruction (at least in English; I’m not sure if the term is used in instructing native Spanish speakers), the great majority of its uses are _not_ reflexive. Most of the time, these _se_ constructions are impersonal or passive; in this case, _se_ marks the passive voice, and there’s nothing “reflexive” involved - even a perfectly literal translation should not use the reflexive pronoun _itself_ because that’s only one of the meanings of _se_ and not the primary one, based on how much each construction is used. [/QUOTE] Agreed in toto; my point was against the fallacies inherent in improperly literal translations. _Llamarse_ means “to be named” far more often than “to call oneself [by a given name]” – granted. And a _good_ literal translation would take that into account – just as it would ordinarily render _Castellano_ as “Spanish.” ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2006, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lisseners-obnoxious-behavior-in-gq/359396/190 "2006-06-06T21:52:58Z")
[QUOTE=Polycarp] Agreed in toto… [/QUOTE] But is it agreed in Dorothy, too? ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2006, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lisseners-obnoxious-behavior-in-gq/359396/191 "2006-06-06T23:13:55Z")
“British” incidentally _was_ a language that was spoken throughout Britian in the pre-Roman period. It survives to us only in place names and in extremely rare inscriptions in Ogham. It is part of the _Brythonic_ family from which Welsh, Cornish, and Breton all sprung. Some linguists have argued that British was spoken in Ireland before displacement by Goidelic Celtic. I do not know what the consensus is on this issue. So in the first century AD, it is quite possible that you might have written a letter in British. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2006, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lisseners-obnoxious-behavior-in-gq/359396/192 "2006-06-06T23:41:34Z")
[QUOTE=Maeglin] So in the first century AD, it is quite possible that you might have written a letter in British. [/QUOTE] Well, if hacking notches in sticks and bundling them together to send off as mail was your thing. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2006, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lisseners-obnoxious-behavior-in-gq/359396/193 "2006-06-07T00:04:43Z")
Since Ireland was mentioned I may as well say that we have two official languages > [@](#): > > Article 8 > > 1. The Irish language as the national language is the first official language. > > 2. The English language is recognised as a second official language. [The Irish Constitution](http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/upload/publications/297.htm). It doesn’t mention that we speak [Hiberno-English](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiberno_English) and there are at least three distinct dialects of Irish(Munster,Connacht,Ulster). Constitutions and languages hey, what ya gonna do? Bang on for four pages rather that just admitting you were being a tit and moving on it seems. ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2006, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lisseners-obnoxious-behavior-in-gq/359396/194 "2006-06-07T00:29:41Z")
> [@](#): > > It doesn’t mention that we speak Hiberno-English and there are at least three distinct dialects of Irish(Munster,Connacht,Ulster). Hey, don’t forget [Ulster Scots](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Scots_dialect)! ---
**Author:** ![Brynda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Brynda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brynda)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2006, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lisseners-obnoxious-behavior-in-gq/359396/195 "2006-06-07T04:07:53Z")
So **lissener** can call me a lying bitch in another thread, but this thread is violence? Whatever, dude. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2006, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lisseners-obnoxious-behavior-in-gq/359396/196 "2006-06-07T04:51:49Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] Well, if hacking notches in sticks and bundling them together to send off as mail was your thing. 😃 [/QUOTE] Sounds like a sequel to that “Fed Ex hasn’t been invented yet!” commercial from the Super Bowl. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2006, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lisseners-obnoxious-behavior-in-gq/359396/197 "2006-06-07T05:17:56Z")
[QUOTE=Brynda] So **lissener** can call me a lying bitch in another thread, but this thread is violence? Whatever, dude. [/QUOTE] Linkety-loo? **lissener** ’s revolting hypocrisy is always an entertaining topic of discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2006, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lisseners-obnoxious-behavior-in-gq/359396/198 "2006-06-07T06:20:14Z")
Also, he has bad taste in movies. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2006, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lisseners-obnoxious-behavior-in-gq/359396/199 "2006-06-07T10:43:32Z")
[QUOTE=Lute Skywatcher] Google “Spanish is the official language of Spain” and you get things like [this](http://www.scfgroup.com/foreign-property/guide-history.html): > [@](#): > > Spanish is the official language of Spain but Catalàn (Catalonia, the Balearics and Valencia), Euskera/Vasco (The Basque Region) and Gallego (Galicia) are all widely spoken in their respective regions. Catalan is closely related to Spanish and Italian, Gallego is part of the Celtic Family of Languages whilst entomologists consider Euskera/Vasco separate from the Indo-European family of languages but with Brethonic (Welsh, Cornish and Bréton), rather than Gallic (Irish and Scottish) Celtic undertones. Those certainly don’t sound like what I’d call “Spanish”. [/QUOTE] Those pesky six legged Brethons. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2006, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lisseners-obnoxious-behavior-in-gq/359396/200 "2006-06-07T13:17:11Z")
[QUOTE=Muffin] Those pesky six legged Brethons. [/QUOTE] And you thought all those first-year language exercises about _'la plume de ma…"_ and _"Busca a Tia Maria_ were talking about a **u** nts? :dubious: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lisseners-obnoxious-behavior-in-gq/359396.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lisseners-obnoxious-behavior-in-gq/359396.md?page=11)