# Lissner banned? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 11, 2004, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-banned/268674 "2004-10-11T17:40:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-banned/268674/121 "2004-10-12T09:17:03Z")
> [@gum](#): > > Originally Posted by **Liberal** Agreed. Thank you, **Liberal**. > > **lissener** , If you’re reading this: I’m sorry. Thank _YOU_. When Lynn was in robust health, she was adamant about this very thing. Tuba has been also. It is a matter of simple decency. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-banned/268674/122 "2004-10-12T09:27:19Z")
> [@Dan Norder](#): > > And if you think it’s a cheap shot to make a comment about some guy who isn’t here to defend himself: > > 1. This is the Pit, home of cheap shots. Hasty generalization fallacy. Common elements between two things do not necessarily make them the same; otherwise, there would be no difference between the sun and a tennis ball. > [@](#): > > 1. It’s his own damn fault he’s not here to defend himself, not mine. If you believe that gives you license to attack him, then you are a coward. A man might fall into a well by his own carelessness, but if you were to stand at the top and ridicule him, you would be a waste of human evolution. ---
**Author:** ![Dan\_Norder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4af34b/32.png) [@Dan\_Norder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dan_Norder)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-banned/268674/123 "2004-10-12T09:44:40Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Hasty generalization fallacy. No, just the truth. You are the king of cheap shots, so don’t be complaining about other people. Take away cheap shots and 99% of your posts wouldn’t be here. > [@Liberal](#): > > If you believe that gives you license to attack him, then you are a coward. Speaking of cheap shots… Calling someone you disagree with a coward is about the cheapest of cheap. I attacked him when he was here too. I haven’t changed anything. I’m not suddenly a coward because I’m still saying the same things I’ve said before. I’ve reported his posts, which included some highly inflammatory comments that I’m shocked the moderators let him get away with previously. The only thing different now is that he’s no longer here. But then maybe he can read it, and he can see my point that I still think he should be able to post here is he was willing to act like a mature and responsible adult. There was an ongoing discussion about his actions here and the ban, so I made a comment. I’m not going to let a class A hypocrite like you try to make me feel ashamed about it. And since this is the Pit: Fuck off, you pathetic purveyor of arbitrary ethical standards you can’t even be bothered to follow yourself. You’re the last person here to be trying to lecture people on how to post responsibly. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-banned/268674/124 "2004-10-12T09:55:25Z")
> [@Dan Norder](#): > > You’re the last person here to be trying to lecture people on how to post responsibly. Be that as it may, attacking a defenseless man is the very definition of cowardice. And blaming me for your twisted rationale does not elevate your case. But if attacking me will distract you from attacking Lissener, then proceed. ---
**Author:** ![InvidiousCourgette](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47c2d/32.png) [@InvidiousCourgette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InvidiousCourgette)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-banned/268674/125 "2004-10-12T10:00:43Z")
> [@Dan Norder](#): > > You’re the last person here to be trying to lecture people on how to post responsibly. That may or may not be the case. > [@Liberal](#): > > It is unseemly to attack a man who is incapable of defending himself. is incontrovertible. Extending unseemly to cowardice is not such a stretch in my view. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-banned/268674/126 "2004-10-12T11:51:24Z")
Eh I hate to see an old timer get the boot. Take care of yourself **Lissner**. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-banned/268674/127 "2004-10-12T11:57:35Z")
I hope he come back. Make nice **Lissener** it won’t be the same without you. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-banned/268674/128 "2004-10-12T12:09:33Z")
> [@calm kiwi](#): > > I hope he come back. When he come back, I hope he bring pie. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-banned/268674/129 "2004-10-12T12:10:43Z")
I hope I learn preview first 😃 (not likely) ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-banned/268674/130 "2004-10-12T14:46:26Z")
> [@Snooooopy](#): > > Camel’s cup? I wonder what that looks like. Camels wear cups all the time. It’s for protection to keep themselves from being turned into “two day camels”. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-banned/268674/131 "2004-10-12T16:15:12Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > How many times was he warned and over how long a period? My point is that some posters have contributed a lot, and deserve more than one subtle warning, and then a banning. I’m sure he was warned a lot more than once. I personally remember this one, which wasn’t all that long ago: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=272172&page=1&pp=50](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=272172&page=1&pp=50) > [@](#): > > \*Whether or not you agree with Lissener, he did contribute a lot to this board (even if it was just to get dudes excited over issues). \*Oddly, I agreed with a lot of **lissener** ’s tastes (although I’ve never seen **Showgirls** and don’t intend to) and I don’t believe his political views were very different from my own. But I don’t think he contributed anything positive to the board. He was completely unreasonable. He may have occasionally produced something worth reading, although I can’t think of any examples offhand, but there was no discussing anything with him unless your idea of “discussion” was “Gosh **lissener** , you’re completely right!” Anyone who failed to do this was not only wrong, they were out to get him, and thus deserving of whatever abuse he could heap upon them. I don’t know about anyone else, but this behavior did not make me excited over any issue. Instead it made me decide that the only sensible thing to do would be to never, ever respond to anything he said or even reply to another poster in a thread that he started, no matter how innocent it seemed. I’d have really liked to have talked about Carl Dreyer and his film **Vampyr** in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=273996&). I’m the only person I know who’s ever seen **Vampyr** , so I’ve never been able to discuss it with anyone else. It would have been fun for me to share my opinion that as a visual experience or an exercise in atmosphere and suspense-building **Vampyr** was fascinating but that as a narrative it was wrist-slittingly dull, find out if anyone else agreed, and read counter-arguments from people who disagreed. But I don’t believe this ever could have happened with **lissener** around. The thread would quickly have turned into him telling me to either watch **Vampyr** over and over again until I agreed that it was an unequivocal masterpiece or else just shut up with my stupid, uninformed, sheep-like opinions. So I stayed out of it. The thread died quickly and peacefully. The film was never discussed. That was partially due to my choice not to participate, but since I knew I wasn’t going to instantly agree with **lissener** ’s every word then it seemed apparent to me that it was either refrain from comment or get into a nasty argument that might have resulted in a warning for both of is. I don’t think the board needs that sort of thing. I know I don’t. I think Cafe Society is better off without his “contributions”. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-banned/268674/132 "2004-10-12T16:28:35Z")
> [@Ilsa\_Lund](#): > > Rarely is anyone ever willing to discuss the issue on it’s own merits. Mention of Verhoeven is immediately met with sarcastic and dismissive put downs about how trashy Verhoeven is. Some are willing to play, and claim that they “get it,” but still didn’t like it. That is a perfectly reasonable and defensible position, but most then go on to reveal, through discussion, that they really _don’t_ get it, which they refuse to acknowledge. Actually understanding a piece and disliking it is fine. Dismissing it, or claiming to understand it and dismissing it (while not really getting it) is annoying as hell. My brother is a metalhead. Our other brother and I have tried several times to get him to listen to some rap. At first he flat-out refused, saying rap isn’t music. Eventually, we were able to make him listen to some really good stuff. He listened to it, admitted it was better than “all that crap rap on the radio”, but said he’s just not into it. Does he just not get rap? Isn’t it possible (in fact likely) that he gets it but _ **just doesn’t like it?** _ He’s obviously not ignorant because he’s actually listened to it. So isn’t it also possible that there are some people who have watched Verhoeven’s movies, get them, and _ **just don’t like it?** _ ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-banned/268674/133 "2004-10-12T16:31:22Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > It is, however, seriously lame to be banned for Verhoeven. That has to be the ultimate economical restatement of the whole “pick your battles” sentiment. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-banned/268674/134 "2004-10-12T16:40:19Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > I’d have really liked to have talked about Carl Dreyer and his film **Vampyr** in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=273996&). I’m the only person I know who’s ever seen **Vampyr** , so I’ve never been able to discuss it with anyone else . . . **Vampyr** was fascinating but as a narrative it was wrist-slittingly dull. I agree with you completely, the film is a lovely mess—I said this in a thread a year or two ago (searched, can’t find it), but never bothered posting to the new Dreyer thread for fear of nuclear explosions. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-banned/268674/135 "2004-10-12T16:55:46Z")
> [@PhalPhoto](#): > > I had a professor in college who had a teaching style that was firmly grounded in derision. If you said something stupid or foolish in his class, he would not only take you to take your statement apart, he would follow up by dismantling you as well. Limbs flying, arterial spray…it was Tarantino in that lecture hall every Thurs from 8-10:30! > > The result of this verbal abuse is that every student would examine his or her response quite carefully before speaking. The result of that is that the quality of the discourse to be found in his classes was exceptionally high. I totally disagree. In all my time working in and around universities, I’ve never seen a _good_ professor have to stoop to tactics like that. Verbal abuse doesn’t lead to “quality discourse,” it leads to NO discourse, because people are either frightened to say anything, or, more likely, sick of hearing the professor throw a–being blunt here–temper tantrum. And so it was with **lissener**. Sure, he had valid points. But they were all lost in a hail of invective and thinly-veiled insult. I remember when I tangled with him over an American-vs.-British English grammar question (which, BTW, was a total hijack of the OP). **lissener** ’s final salvo was along the lines of, “I guess you’re right, but (the British English) still looks retarded.” It was a totally unnecessary cheap shot at the British posters in the thread. Personally, I am glad **lissener** is gone. The number one rule here is still “Don’t be a jerk,” and he violated that to the limit. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-banned/268674/136 "2004-10-12T17:18:29Z")
If \*\*lissener[/]b had simply posted to the BBQ Pit a thread titled “Verheven is a Genius and Y’all Are Idiots” it would have been fine. He never managed to learn that most of the forums were not the correct place for the kind of rhetorical style he was employing. ---
**Author:** ![TubaDiva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tubadiva/32/507_2.png) [@TubaDiva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TubaDiva)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-banned/268674/137 "2004-10-12T17:22:47Z")
This is enough too. Asked and answered and commented on sufficiently. And now closed. your humble TubaDiva Administrator ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-banned/268674/138 "2004-10-12T17:22:57Z")
Heh. I’d like to have seen **PhalPhoto** ’s professor try his schtick i _my_ college. That stuff may work when your dealing with 19-year-old kids who still think they’re in highschool, but in a class where the average undergraduate is 25 years old and an army veteran, he’d have his ass handed to him by the end of the first lesson. Personal insults will be returned in kind, no matter WHO the speaker is. And I had some _terrific_ discussions in college. The best lecturers I had said very little during discussions, mainly guiding the conversation and occasionally throwing in a new idea. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-banned/268674/139 "2004-10-12T17:23:02Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > He’s kind of like **Diogenes the Cynic** in that he’s very smart and often has insightful or educational things to say… :eek: Cite? Another vote here for good riddance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-banned/268674.md?page=6)