# Lissner, This Pit Is For You.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-this-pit-is-for-you/522395
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [December 24, 2009, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-this-pit-is-for-you/522395 "2009-12-24T00:08:28Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 12
### Author:  [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2009, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-this-pit-is-for-you/522395/221 "2009-12-29T18:12:14Z")
> [@billfish678](#):
>
> How many days could you survive in the snow in dead of winter by finding enough wild pray to eat to keep warm?
My cat can snatch a moth out of the air and eat it in the time that it takes me to say, ‘Got_DAMN_, Tokyo!’
I don’t know how long her furry ass would last in the snow, but I know she would last longer than me.
---
### Author:  [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)
#### Post date: [December 30, 2009, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-this-pit-is-for-you/522395/222 "2009-12-30T16:01:21Z")
I’d just like to say that this pitting has been a long time coming.
Damn Verhoeven-loving bastard.
---
### Author:  [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)
#### Post date: [December 30, 2009, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-this-pit-is-for-you/522395/223 "2009-12-30T19:03:33Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#):
>
> My cat can snatch a moth out of the air and eat it in the time that it takes me to say, ‘Got_DAMN_, Tokyo!’
Get a lot of moths in winter, do you?
> [@](#):
>
> I don’t know how long her furry ass would last in the snow, but I know she would last longer than me.
Presumably you could knock on a neighbor’s door and/or make use of some other social support system. Stray cats don’t have that option.
---
### Author:  [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)
#### Post date: [December 30, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-this-pit-is-for-you/522395/224 "2009-12-30T20:10:08Z")
> [@BigT](#):
>
> I still wonder if there is any kernel of salvageability from the thread. Can an obviously not-declawed cat survive in the snow? is pretty much all that’s been debated. But I see plenty of other topics like:
> [ul]
> [li]Is cruelty inherently immoral? [/li][li]Can it ever be justified?[/li][li]Can nonhumans actually be malevolent? [/li][li]If so, what is the appropriate punishment?[/li][/ul]
Take it to GD, egghead. We don’t take kindly to “thinkers” around here.
---
### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [December 30, 2009, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-this-pit-is-for-you/522395/225 "2009-12-30T21:24:49Z")
> [@mecaenas](#):
>
> Besides, that cat had already killed for sport, for entertainment. Do you honestly think that cat would hold back from killing to eat because it’s a pawr liddle howse cat, scared and alone? No. Cats, like any carnivorous animal can be vicious killing machines if their life is on the line. I’m guessing the cat’s biggest threat is the cold, not starvation.
You’re a fucking moron, you know that?
---
### Author:  [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)
#### Post date: [December 30, 2009, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-this-pit-is-for-you/522395/226 "2009-12-30T22:15:56Z")
> [@mecaenas](#):
>
> Besides, that cat had already killed for sport, for entertainment. Do you honestly think that cat would hold back from killing to eat because it’s a pawr liddle howse cat, scared and alone? No. Cats, like any carnivorous animal can be vicious killing machines if their life is on the line. I’m guessing the cat’s biggest threat is the cold, not starvation.
Except for one detail: We don’t hold animals to ethical standards, like we do with humans. A cat being a “vicious killing machine” is ethically null. Humans, on the other hand, are held accountable for their actions; and what Lissener did is anything but ethically null.
---
### Author:  [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)
#### Post date: [December 30, 2009, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-this-pit-is-for-you/522395/227 "2009-12-30T23:44:07Z")
I had a mean cat that loved to hide in dark corners and scratch the shit out of you as you walked by, that I loved anyway and took care of. One day I found it inside of my newborn baby’s crib (at least a 4.5 foot jump from the carpet, because there was nothing nearby for her to leap from) with the sheets shredded and piss on the pillow. My son was not in the crib.
I immediately gave the old, mean, un-adoptable cat to my father in law with instructions to take it to the pound. There is virtually no chance anyone adopted her, and I’m quite certain she was euthanized, and I don’t feel sorry for doing it. I can empathize with lissener on this one. I went from caring for my cat to being completely unconcerned about it’s likely death, over the course of less than 15 seconds. If my son had been in that crib when she jumped into it, she would have seriously hurt him.
---
### Author:  [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)
#### Post date: [December 30, 2009, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-this-pit-is-for-you/522395/228 "2009-12-30T23:47:53Z")
> [@Mosier](#):
>
> I immediately gave the old, mean, un-adoptable cat to my father in law with instructions to take it to the pound. There is virtually no chance anyone adopted her, and I’m quite certain she was euthanized, and I don’t feel sorry for doing it. I can empathize with lissener on this one. I went from caring for my cat to being completely unconcerned about it’s likely death, over the course of less than 15 seconds. If my son had been in that crib when she jumped into it, she would have seriously hurt him.
Yeah, cause both your situations and how you both handled it are so alike its scary :rolleyes:
good fucking grief.
---
### Author:  [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)
#### Post date: [December 31, 2009, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-this-pit-is-for-you/522395/229 "2009-12-31T00:01:19Z")
> [@Mosier](#):
>
> I immediately gave the old, mean, un-adoptable cat to my father in law with instructions to take it to the pound. There is virtually no chance anyone adopted her, and I’m quite certain she was euthanized, and I don’t feel sorry for doing it. I can empathize with lissener on this one. I went from caring for my cat to being completely unconcerned about it’s likely death, over the course of less than 15 seconds. If my son had been in that crib when she jumped into it, she would have seriously hurt him.
I don’t think you understand why I pitted Lissener and why your situation is completely different. It doesn’t matter that Lissener didn’t care if the cat died or
not. The entire issue is that Lissener didn’t do the humane thing and take the
unwanted animal to a shelter, opting instead for just tossing the cat out into the
elements.
---
### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [December 31, 2009, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-this-pit-is-for-you/522395/230 "2009-12-31T00:16:42Z")
> [@Mosier](#):
>
> I had a mean cat that loved to hide in dark corners and scratch the shit out of you as you walked by, that I loved anyway and took care of. One day I found it inside of my newborn baby’s crib (at least a 4.5 foot jump from the carpet, because there was nothing nearby for her to leap from) with the sheets shredded and piss on the pillow. My son was not in the crib.
>
> I immediately gave the old, mean, un-adoptable cat to my father in law with instructions to take it to the pound. There is virtually no chance anyone adopted her, and I’m quite certain she was euthanized, and I don’t feel sorry for doing it. I can empathize with lissener on this one. I went from caring for my cat to being completely unconcerned about it’s likely death, over the course of less than 15 seconds. If my son had been in that crib when she jumped into it, she would have seriously hurt him.
However, your cat was probably euthenized painlessly. **Lissener** simply dumped his cat out in the snow to freeze/starve to death, get killed by some other animal or hit by a car.
Also, in your case, YOU had previously taken care of said cat, whereas **Lissener** was convinced that Gladys was out to get him. I don’t blame you for what you did, but you were the responsible one. He wasn’t.
---
### Author:  [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)
#### Post date: [December 31, 2009, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-this-pit-is-for-you/522395/231 "2009-12-31T03:15:59Z")
Well, I’m mostly in the tank for just about any and every animal.
But sometimes, you just gotta draw the line.
I had a Gladys once, and as far as I’m concerned, Lissener showed admirable restraint.
I’m sure Gladys either died quickly (everything and everybody dies. The collective gasp of horror at the idea of a particular animal dying is very misdirected.) or found someone else to torture.
Cats, especially nasty, obnoxious cats, tend to be excellent at self-preservation. And housecats tend to be lousy at it. Either way, it’s highly doubtful that Gladys suffered terribly.
---
### Author:  [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)
#### Post date: [December 31, 2009, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-this-pit-is-for-you/522395/232 "2009-12-31T03:41:58Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#):
>
> Really. You think that someone that posts a kitty-killing thread on the kittylovin’ dope didn’t fully expect the ‘fuss’?
I tend to assume stupidity over malevolence, yeah. I’m naive that way. I tend to give people the benifit of the doubt.
Because, honestly, if lissener’s a troll, why the heck do I care? If he ever does something that makes me so mad that I can’t stand it, I’ll Pit him and put him on my ignore list. Until then, I really don’t care.
Now, if he’d thrown a **dog** out in the snow…
(d&r)
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### Author:  [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)
#### Post date: [December 31, 2009, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-this-pit-is-for-you/522395/233 "2009-12-31T12:30:37Z")
It’s not so much lissener’s actions that are pittable - after all, he could have sent the cat on its way with a kick up its pissy, unappreciative-of-it’s-owner’s-stuff arse! - it’s the reasoning behind lissener’s actions, which he clearly laid out for us, which make him a pittable asshole.
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### Author:  [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)
#### Post date: [December 31, 2009, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-this-pit-is-for-you/522395/234 "2009-12-31T16:57:31Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#):
>
> It’s not so much lissener’s actions that are pittable - after all, he could have sent the cat on its way with a kick up its pissy, unappreciative-of-it’s-owner’s-stuff arse! - it’s the reasoning behind lissener’s actions, which he clearly laid out for us, which make him a pittable asshole.
He clearly laid out his reasoning? You mean he listed all the destructive annoying shit the cat did before the final straw of peeing on a frying pan? Why does that make it so “pittable”?
It seems to me that when you are broke, depressed and something is destroying all your important stuff then lashing out like he did isn’t all that surprising. Yes, he should have gone to the trouble of dumping it at the shelter, but what he did, as cruel as it is, is a lot more sensible than keeping and feeding it for the rest of its life.
---
### Author:  [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)
#### Post date: [December 31, 2009, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-this-pit-is-for-you/522395/235 "2009-12-31T17:15:05Z")
> [@tacoloco](#):
>
> He wasn’t “mean” to a cat, you stupid fuck. He put a cat out to die.
How do you know the cat died? About twenty years ago I saw a large, sleek, well-muscled and _very_ healthy-looking black panther or jaguar in the Grant Grove section of Sequoia National Park in California. I was standing next to a stake bed truck with three other people and the cat calmly walked between us, just a few feet away, seemingly completely oblivious to our presence. Needless to say, we were all pretty astonished. I told a lot of people about it, including other Park Service employees, and nobody believed me—black panthers simply aren’t indigenous to the Sierra Nevada. I was repeatedly told in quite condescending tones that it must have been a small bear or a bobcat. Yeah, right—as if I can’t tell the difference. It looked just like [this guy](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fc/Jaguar.jpg), except its head wasn’t as wide. It drove me crazy trying to figure out an explanation for its existence. Then about ten years later it finally dawned on me where it came from—it was an abandoned exotic pet or specimen animal. The NPS has had problems with this for years, and sometimes posts flyers in the visitor centers admonishing guests that there are criminal penalties attendant with dumping pets in the park. It all fit—an impossible animal, completely unafraid of a large truck and four humans. Also, I realized later that if the animal continued in a straight line along the path it was taking, it would have led directly to the dumpsters behind the dining room. Judging by his overall appearance, the animal not only wasn’t suffering, it was making a pretty decent living and was probably quite grateful to be free of confinement, although I don’t know how well it fared the winters. The elevation there is low, though, and the winters are fairly mild. I’ll bet he lived for a long time afterwards.
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### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [December 31, 2009, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-this-pit-is-for-you/522395/236 "2009-12-31T17:17:46Z")
> [@CarnalK](#):
>
> It seems to me that when you are broke, depressed and something is destroying all your important stuff then lashing out like he did isn’t all that surprising.
Considering the squalor he says he lived in, what is surprising is that he noticed that the cat did anything at all.
> [@](#):
>
> Yes, he should have gone to the trouble of dumping it at the shelter, but what he did, as cruel as it is, is a lot more sensible than keeping and feeding it for the rest of its life.
Well, that’s the point, isn’t it? Taking a cat to the shelter, even if it will be euthanized = not cruel. Tossing a cat out like the garbage he should have tossed instead = cruel.
And, of course, starting a thread about how you throw a cat out like garbage = trolling.
Regards,
Shodan
---
### Author:  [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)
#### Post date: [December 31, 2009, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-this-pit-is-for-you/522395/237 "2009-12-31T17:27:32Z")
> [@Shodan](#):
>
> And, of course, starting a thread about how you throw a cat out like garbage = trolling.
>
> Regards,
> Shodan
I think the not even remotely regretting it even after having all these years to think about it and mature as person is what puts it over the top. It certainly does for me.
Of course, I am coming the conclusion that Lissener is incapable of maturity and any form of introspection. Without those your regret subroutine sure aint gonna work either.
---
### Author:  [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)
#### Post date: [December 31, 2009, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-this-pit-is-for-you/522395/238 "2009-12-31T17:28:48Z")
> [@Washoe](#):
>
> Then about ten years later it finally dawned on me where it came from—it was an abandoned exotic pet or specimen animal.
WTH does this have to do with someone throwing an indoor house cat outside in the winter to fend for itself?
> [@CarnalK](#):
>
> Yes, he should have gone to the trouble of dumping it at the shelter, but what he did, as cruel as it is, is a lot more sensible than keeping and feeding it for the rest of its life.
I may have missed it, but I’m not sure anyone was arguing that he should have kept the cat. It seems reasonable that this particular cat was not compatible with Lissener and getting rid of it was the right choice. There was a cruel choice and a humane choice. Lissener chose poorly.
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### Author:  [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)
#### Post date: [December 31, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-this-pit-is-for-you/522395/239 "2009-12-31T17:41:10Z")
> [@tacoloco](#):
>
> WTH does this have to do with someone throwing an indoor house cat outside in the winter to fend for itself?
My story involves someone throwing an indoor house cat (albeit a BIG one) outside in the winter to fend for itself—seems pretty apropos to me.
---
### Author:  [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)
#### Post date: [December 31, 2009, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lissner-this-pit-is-for-you/522395/240 "2009-12-31T17:47:03Z")
> [@Washoe](#):
>
> My story involves someone throwing an indoor house cat (albeit a BIG one) outside in the winter to fend for itself—seems pretty apropos to me.
Of course you didnt see all the OTHER dumped critters that DIED when folks dumped em did you?
Hey, I drove home last night and DID NOT get hit by a drunk driver. Therefore drunk driving must be an an okay thing to do because I survived it.
Dipshit.
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